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Vaccination advice

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jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 21 May 2006 02:07 GMT
Recently, somebody posted here how easy it is to spread feline
distemper - that you could bring it in on your clothes, if you had
contact with an infected cat, and then give it to your own cats
if they're not vaccinated. Could the person who posted that (Kajikit,
maybe?) say more about that? Did I understand that correctly?

This worries me because I have two indoor-only cats and one indoor/
outdoor. Smudge (the indoor/outdoor) is fully vaccinated. However,
I didn't keep up with the shots for the indoor-only kitties because
I was quite broke. Now I'm working again so I can afford it, and I
want to make sure they're protected. (For the record, Smudge has been
going outside *unrestricted* for only 6 months. Before that, I had her
on a leash in the outdoor stairwell, so she had far less contact with
other animals. I think there's more risk now.)

Also, I have another reason for not vaccinating one of my indoor-
only cats, Roxy. She has feline herpes and I consider her to be
immune-compromised. So I don't like to give her vaccinations unless
she truly needs it, and since she doesn't go out at all, I didn't
think she would need it. Now, after reading the comment about feline
distemper, I'm quite anxious about that, and I'm wondering if I
should bring Roxy and Licky up to date on their shots.

Questions:

- Do I need to vaccinate Roxy and Licky? Are they at risk due to
 the fact that Smudge goes out, even though she is fully vaccinated?

- Which shots do they need?

I'm also going to ask my vet about this, of course, but frankly, I
don't fully trust this vet not to tell me that I need to get them the
absolute maximum of everything, because they try to squeeze every bit
of money out of you they can. I don't want to short-change my kitties,
but at the same time, I don't want to give them shots they really
don't need. It's not even a matter of money anymore, but rather, I'm
concerned about overloading Roxy's system with pathogens (albeit dead
ones) when her immune system is occupied dealing with the herpes.

Licky is also an issue because I seriously don't think I could get
him into a carrier. And if I do manage to bring him to the vet, I
fear he will be totally traumatized. It would probably be a lot
easier if I could just get the serum and a syringe, and give him the
shots myself! There is a local vet who will do that.

Thanks for any advice.

Joyce
Jo Firey - 21 May 2006 02:42 GMT
> Recently, somebody posted here how easy it is to spread feline
> distemper - that you could bring it in on your clothes, if you had
> contact with an infected cat, and then give it to your own cats
> if they're not vaccinated. Could the person who posted that (Kajikit,
> maybe?) say more about that? Did I understand that correctly?

Since the risk probably varies by location, I'd call a vet and ask.

But around here, the odds are really stacked against a kitten surviving
without shots.

I have no idea how important the boosters are.

Jo
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 21 May 2006 03:46 GMT
> But around here, the odds are really stacked against a kitten surviving
> without shots.

Even a kitten who never goes out?

Joyce
Cheryl - 21 May 2006 02:48 GMT
On Sat 20 May 2006 09:07:46p,  wrote in rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
(news:446fbd62$0$65506$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net):

> - Do I need to vaccinate Roxy and Licky? Are they at risk due to
>   the fact that Smudge goes out, even though she is fully
>   vaccinated?
>
> - Which shots do they need?

There are so many opinions about vaccinations and cats out there.
For distemper (feline panleukopenia) I asked a clinic vet how long
it can live outside of a host, and the answer is a year, or maybe
more. That's scary.  However, panleukopenia mostly affects young
cats. But, do you want to risk it that yours could fight it off?  
I'm torn about this, and I've seen adult cats infected with it,
though it isn't nearly as bad as with kittens. It's like a eye
infection with diarrhea and no appetite.

Studies show that in most cats one vaccination can protect for
anywhere from 3 to 7 years. Some studies show that after the first
set of kitten shots, you need only get the first year booster, and
they're protected for those 3 to 7 years, and some say that if
they're indoor cats, over the age of 7 they aren't at risk of dying
from those virii.

However, vets give a combo vaccination shot, FVRCP-C. That combo
covers feline rhinotracheitis, an upper respiratory infection
resulting in conjunctivitis, sneezing, nasal discharge, eye lesions
and occasional coughing. The C stands for calicivirus, a virus that
can cause similar respiratory signs. These diseases account for 95%
of upper respiratory infections in cats. Many adult cats are
carriers, even though they may have no signs themselves of the
disease. And of course the P is for panleukopenia.

Can individual boosters be given instead of the combo, based on how
long they're still protecting the cat?  Yes. Is it something a vet
will offer you?  No, not usually. It's commonly given as a combo. I
think I've read that the booster for calicivirus doesn't protect as
long as the panleukopenia, so it has to be given more often. Is
your cat more at risk of picking up calicivirus than he is of the
long lasting panleukopenia virus? Good question.  I've never found
the answers to all of these questions that I'm comfortable with.
Shamrock hasn't had boosters for R+C+P in over 3 years now due to
his own immune compromised condition, but I do worry about bringing
something home to him.

Signature

Cheryl

jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 21 May 2006 03:52 GMT
> Studies show that in most cats one vaccination can protect for
> anywhere from 3 to 7 years. Some studies show that after the first
> set of kitten shots, you need only get the first year booster, and
> they're protected for those 3 to 7 years, and some say that if
> they're indoor cats, over the age of 7 they aren't at risk of dying
> from those virii... [snip]

OK, thanks, I do appreciate that info. It's good to know that FPV isn't
deadly to adult cats. Although with Roxy's herpes, she's probably more
vulnerable than Licky would be, now that he's over 3 years old.

But the question is, if Roxy and Licky don't go outside, could they
even be exposed to it? Smudge does go out, but she is vaccinated.
Therefore, she would not get the illnesses and wouldn't be exposing
them to R & L. Or could she expose them anyway, even though she is
vaccinated? That is my question.

I also worry about feline leukemia (FeLV). That is extremely contagious.
But again, Smudge has been vaccinated against that. So would she be
able to infect Roxy and Licky?

Does anyone else have a group of cats, some of whom go outside, and
some of whom do not ever go outside? Do you vaccinate them all equally?
Do you feel it is necessary to vaccinate the indoor cats?

That is what I want to know.

Thanks,
Joyce
Helen Miles - 21 May 2006 11:21 GMT
> But the question is, if Roxy and Licky don't go outside, could they
> even be exposed to it? Smudge does go out, but she is vaccinated.
> Therefore, she would not get the illnesses and wouldn't be exposing
> them to R & L. Or could she expose them anyway, even though she is
> vaccinated? That is my question.////

I would say that without scaremongering, they are possibly more at risk
because they are not being exposed to anything outside and so are not
developing a natural immunity. I had a similar discussion about this
regarding Pandora (who is mostly inddor, with access to a garden that
she doesn't leave) with a close friend of mine who used to be Tigers
vet, and she told me that in her opinion, FeLV vacinine is OK for 2
years after the inital course and a one year booster, although the
manufacturers don't recommend it, and FCVRP is OK for 3 years, but she
would recommend that indoor cats were vaccinated - especially if one
member of the household was indoor/outdoor.

Helen M.
W. Leong - 21 May 2006 12:35 GMT
Rusty is an indoor only cat. But he is vaccinated with whatever his vet
thinks necessary.
I get a health and vaccination certificate every year. Without it, I cannot
board him
at other places besides my vet, who probably won't board any unvaccinated
cats either.
Besides, I figure he may catch something from other cats during vet visits.
I remember one
time how sick I got after coming home from a doctor's office.

Winnie

> On Sat 20 May 2006 09:07:46p,  wrote in rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
> (news:446fbd62$0$65506$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net):
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> his own immune compromised condition, but I do worry about bringing
> something home to him.
-L. - 21 May 2006 07:10 GMT
> Recently, somebody posted here how easy it is to spread feline
> distemper - that you could bring it in on your clothes, if you had
> contact with an infected cat, and then give it to your own cats
> if they're not vaccinated. Could the person who posted that (Kajikit,
> maybe?) say more about that? Did I understand that correctly?

Third-party transmission *can* occur, but it's not the common mode of
transmission.  FPV is common in the environment so most cats have been
exposed to it at one time or another.  It's highly stable in the
environment - about the only thing that will kill it is bleach.

> This worries me because I have two indoor-only cats and one indoor/
> outdoor. Smudge (the indoor/outdoor) is fully vaccinated. However,
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> - Do I need to vaccinate Roxy and Licky? Are they at risk due to
>   the fact that Smudge goes out, even though she is fully vaccinated?

They are at some risk because Smudge may bring the virus in - just as
you may bring it in via your shoes and clothing.  Are there a lot of
rogue cats where you live?

> - Which shots do they need?

It's totally your choice.  FWIW, I have two indoor-only cats that do
not get vaccinated any longer.  They live with my dog in separate
quarters in my house and the dog goes in and out 3-4 times daily - as
do I.  They have been living like this for the last 7 years and neither
have contracted anything.  I don't vaccinate mine because they were
vaxed as kittens and have had reactions to vaccines as adults - so I
simply don't any more.

> I'm also going to ask my vet about this, of course, but frankly, I
> don't fully trust this vet not to tell me that I need to get them the
> absolute maximum of everything, because they try to squeeze every bit
> of money out of you they can.

The vet will tell you to give them FVRCP, rabies and FeLV, probably.

> I don't want to short-change my kitties,
> but at the same time, I don't want to give them shots they really
> don't need. It's not even a matter of money anymore, but rather, I'm
> concerned about overloading Roxy's system with pathogens (albeit dead
> ones) when her immune system is occupied dealing with the herpes.

I think that's a perfectly sound reason for not vaccinating her.

> Licky is also an issue because I seriously don't think I could get
> him into a carrier. And if I do manage to bring him to the vet, I
> fear he will be totally traumatized. It would probably be a lot
> easier if I could just get the serum and a syringe, and give him the
> shots myself! There is a local vet who will do that.

Do as much research as you can on FPV and then make your decision.
Don't let the vet make it for you.

Good luck,
-L.
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 21 May 2006 07:46 GMT
> Do as much research as you can on FPV and then make your decision.
> Don't let the vet make it for you.

Thanks for the info and feedback, Lyn. I sure wish the answers were
simpler and more straightforward. :) I don't really feel capable of
making a good decision. But I will try to find out more about FPV and
FeLV (the other virus I worry about), and see if it's worth making
an issue of them.

Roxy has had all her initial shots, plus boosters. So she might already
be protected. I believe Licky hasn't had boosters, so I should probably
get it for him.

I just had a thought - would it be possible to test for antibodies to
these viruses, to determine whether the cat is still immune? I would
assume that if they still have antibodies, they should be immune, right?

Joyce
Lois - 21 May 2006 09:28 GMT
> > Do as much research as you can on FPV and then make your decision.
> > Don't let the vet make it for you.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Joyce

Joyce a cat that is vaccinated can still "catch" one of these nasty virus's
although it would probably be just a mild case. Having an initial vacc. plus
booster does not protect them for life. Some cats are carriers but NEVER
have symptoms, they can (and do) pass on the disease to other cats. Indoor
only cats are not protected just because they live indoors, very young
kittens and older cats are more susceptible to catching a virus.

My cats (and kittens) are indoor only cats, they are breeding cats, I have a
lot of visitors that could potentially bring in a "bug" my cats are
vaccinated yearly.

Good luck for you to make the right decision.

Lois
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 21 May 2006 19:58 GMT
Thank you, Lois - that is very useful information.

Joyce
dnr - 21 May 2006 20:34 GMT
.. -L.> wrote:
> > Do as much research as you can on FPV and then make your decision.
> > Don't let the vet make it for you.

> Thanks for the info and feedback, Lyn. I sure wish the answers were
> simpler and more straightforward. :) I don't really feel capable of
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> assume that if they still have antibodies, they should be immune, right?
> Joyce

If you'll pardon my skepticism I would assume that lab tests for various
viruses  would equal costs to have your cats get the additional
vaccinations.
And if your cat(s) did have antibodies one month, would they still have them
the next?
I didn't like getting my cats the one-year-rabies vaccine (well known for
possible sarcoma at injection site) one bit! Vet patiently explained the
3-year vaccine had proven to not be effective following the first year.
He gave them the injection - as I wished and was his routine - on a
hind leg, not between shoulderblades or near heads. All are fine.
Victor Martinez - 21 May 2006 15:54 GMT
> - Which shots do they need?

I go by the recommendations of the American Association of Feline
Practitioners:
http://www.aafponline.org/resources/guidelines/vaccine.pdf

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Victor M. Martinez
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