Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / May 2006
my visit to the GI specialist
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Monique Y. Mudama - 20 May 2006 19:29 GMT I saw him on Thursday. It was mostly just a preliminary meeting to talk about my symptoms. He's waiting to get the test results from my doctor's office before deciding what tests to give me.
He said that random assignment will get the same results as a GI specialist going solely by symptoms -- in other words, lab tests are necessary to truly establish what is going on, and there are several conditions that could cause my symptoms, not just IBS.
He gave me samples of a medicine called Symax Duotab, and I have to say, it's amazing. The only time my belly is upset anymore is in the hour right before I should take the next dose. I asked him how it worked, but he said no one is really sure; it just seems to help. Unfortunately, they gave me the last of their samples, and that will run out Sunday afternoon. I plan to call him Monday morning and try to get a prescription right away.
When I asked him about side effects, he said that it can give you Benadryl-like drowsiness. But I looked online, and there are all sorts of cautions, like heat stroke because it impedes sweat. Hrm.
A lot of what he said just really doesn't sound right to me. He said there's no such thing as hard to digest foods. He said there's no point in me trying to avoid certain foods right now. I find this hard to believe. However, I have gotten acupuncture and massage and tried homeopathy for this; the least I could do is give this Western medicine specialist a chance.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
W. Leong - 20 May 2006 19:52 GMT >I saw him on Thursday. It was mostly just a preliminary meeting to > talk about my symptoms. He's waiting to get the test results from my [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > homeopathy for this; the least I could do is give this Western > medicine specialist a chance. I was wondering how it went with your visit to the GI doctor. I am surprised he didn't order some tests for you right away Call to make sure he gets whatever he need from your doctor. Recently it took some time before my records was transferred from one doctor to another. In my case there was no hurry as the transfer was necessary just because one doctor moved out of town. But it is different in your case. Purrs you will get a proper diagnosis soon.
Winnie
Monique Y. Mudama - 20 May 2006 21:15 GMT > I was wondering how it went with your visit to the GI doctor. I am > surprised he didn't order some tests for you right away Call to make [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > just because one doctor moved out of town. But it is different in > your case. Purrs you will get a proper diagnosis soon. He didn't order tests because he wanted to see what the tests I've already had show before he decides which tests to give me. I did call my doctor right away on Thursday and left a message about exactly what I needed, but didn't hear back. I'll call again on Monday.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
dnr - 20 May 2006 20:13 GMT > He said that random assignment will get the same results as a GI > specialist going solely by symptoms -- in other words, lab tests are [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Benadryl-like drowsiness. But I looked online, and there are all > sorts of cautions, like heat stroke because it impedes sweat. Hrm.
> A lot of what he said just really doesn't sound right to me. He said > there's no such thing as hard to digest foods. He said there's no [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > medicine specialist a chance. > monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully Side effects?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticholinergic
I'd stay off the bike(s) - all of them - till you take this for a few weeks....and don't take more than doc said, just because it's helping your symptoms. As I've said before (not lately) *ALL* meds have side effects and if they're doing you good, you have to live w/the side effects, by choice. This is of no interest to you but I am (probably because of what I used to work at) Western medicine believer and have no regard for alternatives. To each his/her own. Doc is right: there ARE lots of things that could be making your tummy miserable. I've *purposely* not gone into that (them)....you got enough on your plate now. No need to worry about things you *might* have. Yes, I care and hope the doc plans investigative tests that lead to a treatable diagnosis for you.
Monique Y. Mudama - 20 May 2006 21:30 GMT > Side effects? > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticholinergic > > I'd stay off the bike(s) - all of them - till you take this for a > few weeks.... I wonder about that. I specifically asked about side effects, but he said nothing. I wonder what the incident rates of these side effects are. Why a few weeks, not just a few days?
I just weeded the flower bed -- a major endeavor, because I haven't done it yet this year, so it was more accurately a weed bed -- and I felt a bit shakey. But to be honest, I'm not used to this heat yet (it's the hottest it's been yet this year) and I always get a bit shakey when I exercise in the heat and I'm not used to it. So I dunno. It may have nothing to do with the drug.
> and don't take more than doc said, just because it's > helping your symptoms. Don't worry; that's not the kind of thing I would do. If anything, I'm prone to taking less of a med than the doctor prescribes, unless of course it's an antibiotic or similar that requires all the doses in order to work.
> As I've said before (not lately) *ALL* meds have side effects and if > they're doing you good, you have to live w/the side effects, by > choice. And there may be other options. It's awfully nice, though, not to have constant bowel issues, I have to admit. Maybe the fact that it helped will help him narrow down the possibilities.
> This is of no interest to you but I am (probably because of what I > used to work at) Western medicine believer and have no regard for > alternatives. Well, I didn't start seeing alternative medicine options because of my belly, or because I disliked Western medicine as a whole. I started going to massage and acupuncture because my orthopedic surgeons flat out told me that they couldn't figure out what was wrong with my wrist. This after at least 10 xrays and an MRI. Physical therapy didn't help, either. Massage is the only thing so far that seems to have made a noticable difference. No, that's not true -- a steroid shot helped for a year, but I'm loathe to pursue that.
It may be of interest that my acupuncturist is not only covered by insurance, but is actually in network.
When I'm sick, I go to my regular doctor. But if Western doctors can't figure out what's wrong with me, I'm not just going to sit there and take it. I'm going to look at what I can find out on my own.
> To each his/her own. Doc is right: there ARE lots of things that > could be making your tummy miserable. I've *purposely* not gone into > that (them)....you got enough on your plate now. No need to worry > about things you *might* have. Yes, I care and hope the doc plans > investigative tests that lead to a treatable diagnosis for you. Oh, I've read a lot -- the list of things you have to rule out before you decide it's IBS is daunting. But I'd rather know.
One other thing he said is that he finds it highly unlikely that it could be anything having to do with reproductive organs, because diarrhea isn't typically associated with that. But I thought it could be. Do you (or anyone else) have thoughts about that?
By the way, one thing that I hold true no matter whether I'm dealing with a Western doctor, an alternative medicine practitioner, or another regular Jane on the web -- no one knows everything. It's worth my while to do research on my own, not just blindly trust what someone tells me.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
dnr - 20 May 2006 23:45 GMT >> Side effects? >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticholinergic [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > said nothing. I wonder what the incident rates of these side effects > are. Why a few weeks, not just a few days? Some meds I take (nada to do w/you) need weeks to get into your system. Some I take would trigger another heart attack for me if I suddenly stopped taking them. Some meds I take *must* be taken w/food or they'll eat a hole in your stomach. Meds are a PITA really. I sure wish Howard B. would get himself & Mr. Clark & everybody settled in St. Louis and get back here in rpca; I try to do my best to help friends here w/their med problems (remember I was only a registered xray tech in bigtime ER! - Howard knows a lot more about medical stuff other than bones, LOL) My knowledge outside of xray is mostly from watching things happen over & over at work for 30 years. However: I know nothiing except the Wikipedia I sent you the link of about this med you got. Some take longer to get into your system than others, I dunno about this one.
> I just weeded the flower bed -- a major endeavor, because I haven't > done it yet this year, so it was more accurately a weed bed -- and I > felt a bit shakey. But to be honest, I'm not used to this heat yet > (it's the hottest it's been yet this year) and I always get a bit > shakey when I exercise in the heat and I'm not used to it. So I > dunno. It may have nothing to do with the drug. You are talking to someone who, along w/a guy from Phoenix, was running around the Kennedy gravesites in Arlington one day while on a visit to my 'lil bro in VA (him & wife drove us all to DC gov't area, threw me out near the White House, and continued on to work) when it was 104oF and tourists were dropping like flies all around us. Near Bobby's simple white cross around the corner, the paramedics inquired where we two were from, as we appeared frisky and happy; they roared when I replied, "Miami" and the guy said, "Phoenix".... "well, we're not worried about you two!" and they stuffed the last of the collapsing ones into ambulance rear.... I am quite happy not to be freezing my butt off; it can't get too hot here for me, and I DO remember the 103o last June. It's all relative. Take it easy, young lady; I doubt your shakiness is the new med.
>> and don't take more than doc said, just because it's >> helping your symptoms. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of course it's an antibiotic or similar that requires all the doses in > order to work. Good; many think "this is great, more is greater".....
>> As I've said before (not lately) *ALL* meds have side effects and if >> they're doing you good, you have to live w/the side effects, by >> choice. And there may be other options. It's awfully nice, though, not to
> have constant bowel issues, I have to admit. Maybe the fact that it > helped will help him narrow down the possibilities. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > diarrhea isn't typically associated with that. But I thought it could > be. Do you (or anyone else) have thoughts about that? I used to have several reproductive organ disorders - mechanical, like prolapsed uterus, solved by total complete hysterectomy; very bad painful endometriosis, (you can look that up if need be) solved by end of menses/menopause. None involved diarrhea. The pain I used to have from stress-induced IBS was nothing compared to the agony of endometriosis when I was young.
> By the way, one thing that I hold true no matter whether I'm dealing > with a Western doctor, an alternative medicine practitioner, or another > regular Jane on the web -- no one knows everything. It's worth my while > to do research on my own, not just blindly trust what someone tells me. Good for you. I ain't Howard, but there's always the online medical websites.
Monique Y. Mudama - 21 May 2006 16:40 GMT > Some meds I take (nada to do w/you) need weeks to get into your > system. This med definitely took effect right away as far as helping my tummy feel better, and I can tell that effect wears off about an hour before my next dose. Do you think side effects can take a while to show up even when the primary effect is clearly coming and going like that?
>> I just weeded the flower bed -- a major endeavor, because I haven't >> done it yet this year, so it was more accurately a weed bed -- and I >> felt a bit shakey. But to be honest, I'm not used to this heat yet >> (it's the hottest it's been yet this year) and I always get a bit >> shakey when I exercise in the heat and I'm not used to it. So I >> dunno. It may have nothing to do with the drug.
> You are talking to someone who, along w/a guy from Phoenix, was > running around the Kennedy gravesites in Arlington one day while on [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > "well, we're not worried about you two!" and they stuffed the last of > the collapsing ones into ambulance rear....
> I am quite happy not to be freezing my butt off; it can't get too hot here > for me, and I DO remember the 103o last June. It's all relative. I grew up in VA, and didn't have AC for all of college in Williamsburg. I used to play soccer in the middle of the summer up there. I do deal with heat okay, but first I need a few days at that temp to adjust to it. That being said, it *can* get too hot for me (at least to exercise in), mostly back east where it's like trying to breathe soup with all that humidity. Blech!
> Take it easy, young lady; I doubt your shakiness is the new med. Well, today I'm finding my hamstrings are pretty sore, so I'm going to chalk the shakiness up to exercise I'm not used to. It was pretty intense; the weeds had deep roots, and when I did manage to pull up the root, often I would almost tumble over.
Later I took a spade to the recalcitrant roots and dug them out. A full-sized spade, not a little gardening spade. Jumping on the shovel to get it all the way into the ground. Turns out weeding can be great for stress relief!
>> One other thing he said is that he finds it highly unlikely that it >> could be anything having to do with reproductive organs, because >> diarrhea isn't typically associated with that. But I thought it could >> be. Do you (or anyone else) have thoughts about that?
> I used to have several reproductive organ disorders - mechanical, > like prolapsed uterus, solved by total complete hysterectomy; > very bad painful endometriosis, (you can look that up if need be) > solved by end of menses/menopause. None involved diarrhea. > The pain I used to have from stress-induced IBS was nothing > compared to the agony of endometriosis when I was young. Oof. You've been through a lot.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
W. Leong - 21 May 2006 17:00 GMT > Well, today I'm finding my hamstrings are pretty sore, so I'm going to > chalk the shakiness up to exercise I'm not used to. It was pretty > intense; the weeds had deep roots, and when I did manage to pull up > the root, often I would almost tumble over. Next time you go for a massage, ask the therapist to work on you hamstrings. During the Big black out a few years back I took the stairs a lot as I live on the upper floor of a highrise. My legs are very sore afterwards and went for a massage, which certainly helped.
Winnie
Jo Firey - 21 May 2006 18:14 GMT >> Some meds I take (nada to do w/you) need weeks to get into your >> system. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > my next dose. Do you think side effects can take a while to show up > even when the primary effect is clearly coming and going like that? Remember, side effects aren't something that will happen. They are something that might happen to a small percentage of people taking the drug.
Jo
Monique Y. Mudama - 22 May 2006 00:46 GMT >>> Some meds I take (nada to do w/you) need weeks to get into your >>> system. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > something that might happen to a small percentage of people taking > the drug. That's true. Thank you for reminding me. My doctor (I almost typed "my vet") probably didn't mention the severe side effects because of their rarity.
I definitely sweat today! As a trial, I went hiking with a friend and her 10yo kid. It was 8 miles, but a very gradual climb (old railroad bed). Nothing to even make you breathe hard. I figure that if the meds were affecting my ability to regulate temperature properly, I'd have noticed it out there -- quite toasty.
Oh, and I did remember to use sunscreen. I have a tiny strip of pink on either shoulder, probably where the Camelbak rubbed and wore off the sunscreen, but otherwise no burns, and certainly nothing painful. Yay!
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
Tanada - 22 May 2006 06:15 GMT > Remember, side effects aren't something that will happen. They are > something that might happen to a small percentage of people taking the drug. > > Jo Except Glucophage. If you don't get severe diarrhea when you start it, it isn't working right, and you need to get help. ;-P
Pam S.
John F. Eldredge - 22 May 2006 13:54 GMT >> Remember, side effects aren't something that will happen. They are >> something that might happen to a small percentage of people taking the drug. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Pam S. I have been on Glucophage for about 8 years; it has helped my blood sugar, and hasn't given me diarrhea (I get loose bowels every once in a while, but not on any consistent basis).
 Signature John F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
Dan M - 22 May 2006 16:30 GMT >>Except Glucophage. If you don't get severe diarrhea when you start it, >>it isn't working right, and you need to get help. ;-P [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > sugar, and hasn't given me diarrhea (I get loose bowels every once in > a while, but not on any consistent basis). Same here. For about 5 years.
Dan
Jane - 22 May 2006 16:59 GMT >>>Except Glucophage. If you don't get severe diarrhea when you start it, >>>it isn't working right, and you need to get help. ;-P [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Dan I was on a large dose of Glucophage for 3 months, and it was AWFUL. Then I told my endo about it,and he gave me smaller-dose pills more often, and my body got used to it. Now there's almost no bad effects. It's a great diabetes drug, too.
Eat your fiber. *grin*
Jane - owned and operated by Princess Rita
Tanada - 22 May 2006 21:09 GMT >>>Remember, side effects aren't something that will happen. They are >>>something that might happen to a small percentage of people taking the drug. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > sugar, and hasn't given me diarrhea (I get loose bowels every once in > a while, but not on any consistent basis). I've always been prone to diarrhea, but when I STARTED Glucophage, it did a number on my system that took several days to clear up. Most people have that problem when first starting Glucophage, according to the doctor that put me on the stuff.
Pam S.
dnr - 21 May 2006 18:35 GMT >> Some meds I take (nada to do w/you) need weeks to get into your >> system. > This med definitely took effect right away as far as helping my tummy > feel better, and I can tell that effect wears off about an hour before > my next dose. Do you think side effects can take a while to show up > even when the primary effect is clearly coming and going like that? Yep.
> Later I took a spade to the recalcitrant roots and dug them out. A > full-sized spade, not a little gardening spade. Jumping on the shovel > to get it all the way into the ground. Turns out weeding can be great > for stress relief! > monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully Yes, gardening (weeding) can be quite physical...I watch my DIL do it to her flower garden in front yard/swale when I'm over in the big city w/grandbaby and her 'rents. I'm sitting on their big front porch blowing bottled soapbubbles w/grand-daughter while DIL weeds/mulches the beds below. She always has on some kinda hat...you might want to try that if you don't already. As for the gyno annoyances most females dread "the menopause" as it marks end of youth/reproduction ability. Few were as "hip-hip-hooray" over it as I was because I knew relief would follow......also I was one of the lucky ones w/very few "hot flashes", ever. In s.FL., in summer, you don't notice them much anyway if you're outside, LOL....as you mention, thick humidity/heat.
Monique Y. Mudama - 22 May 2006 00:43 GMT > Yes, gardening (weeding) can be quite physical...I watch my DIL do it > to her flower garden in front yard/swale when I'm over in the big city > w/grandbaby and her 'rents. I'm sitting on their big front porch blowing > bottled soapbubbles w/grand-daughter while DIL weeds/mulches the > beds below. She always has on some kinda hat...you might want to try > that if you don't already. I wear a visor; that does allow the top of my head to get sunburned, but feels cooler to me than having my head fully covered. Saved my butt -- er, no, my face -- if you'll recall, last year when I foolishly did an all-day hike in the Indian Peaks with no sunscreen. My shoulders and arms were a mess, but my face wasn't even rosy.
I'm glad DH came out to share weeding duties. I had a suspicion that the weeding would affect my screwed up wrist, and I was right about that. It's more sore than usual today. Of course, I don't really know if that's bad (furthering the injury) or good (building strength in the wrist). Sigh.
> As for the gyno annoyances most females dread "the menopause" as it > marks end of youth/reproduction ability. Few were as "hip-hip-hooray" > over it as I was because I knew relief would follow......also I was one > of the lucky ones w/very few "hot flashes", ever. In s.FL., in summer, > you don't notice them much anyway if you're outside, LOL....as you > mention, thick humidity/heat. Oh man. Yeah. I really do like the dry heat out here better. The only thing I miss are warm summer nights. You just don't get those here; every evening it cools off enough to make long pants and maybe a light jacket seem like a good idea. I miss driving around the country roads of VA with the convertible top down in the evening. Or just sitting out on the deck late at night. Yes, you can do that here, but it does get chilly.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
dnr - 22 May 2006 01:13 GMT > Oh man. Yeah. I really do like the dry heat out here better. The > only thing I miss are warm summer nights. You just don't get those [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > it does get chilly. > monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully For someone who has complained so much re winter and the messes it brings here, strangely enough I like the evenings/nights cooling off (that only happens where I came from if it rains heavily).Makes you sleep good (at least me) to have a light cover. Due to the lack of rust on cars in this dry climate, I've seen some' *glorious* old low-riders and fully restored original huge convertibles around here, being driven. Latest one was a big red Caddy w/small blonde at wheel (I think she's a RE agent). Red vehicles fade so quick (not even mentioning rust) in s.FL they soon get *pink*.... it's the salt air moisture there, they say, from the Gulf Stream. I thought recently of something *good* about CO winters: where I moved here from, if you buy ice cream or popsicles during a grocery store trip, you better haul a** home w/them fast or you'll have liquid treats if you dally! When it was cold here, I could go visit someone, hang out, and everything (as long as I left it in truck bed) would be still frozen stiff however long I took to get home...LOL. A dubious plus, but still a winter plus, no? And the cats are like heat-seeking fur-covered hot water bottle missiles when the bed is chilly....love them cats.
W. Leong - 22 May 2006 01:44 GMT > I thought recently of something *good* about CO winters: where > I moved here from, if you buy ice cream or popsicles during a > grocery store trip, you better haul a** home w/them fast or > you'll have liquid treats if you dally! I remember trying to eating an ice cream as far as I could before it all melted away. It was September in Rome, but still fairly hot.
When it was cold here, I
> could go visit someone, hang out, and everything (as long as I > left it in truck bed) would be still frozen stiff however long I took > to get home...LOL. A dubious plus, but still a winter plus, no? > And the cats are like heat-seeking fur-covered hot water bottle > missiles when the bed is chilly....love them cats. Same here. The only concern is the produce got frozen before you get home. I used to use Rusty as a foot warmer when I got home in the winter. He didn't like it and I have stopped doing that.
Winnie
Monique Y. Mudama - 22 May 2006 17:49 GMT > For someone who has complained so much re winter and the messes it > brings here, strangely enough I like the evenings/nights cooling off (that > only happens where I came from if it rains heavily).Makes you sleep > good (at least me) to have a light cover. Not me -- I sleep best under heavy blankets. I feel "weird" when there's only a sheet or a light blanket.
> When it was cold here, I could go visit someone, hang out, and > everything (as long as I left it in truck bed) would be still frozen > stiff however long I took to get home...LOL. A dubious plus, but still > a winter plus, no? The trick is to actually *want* ice cream when it's that cold!
Then again ... this past winter seemed awfully mild to me, for Colorado ...
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
Tanada - 22 May 2006 06:20 GMT > Oh man. Yeah. I really do like the dry heat out here better. The > only thing I miss are warm summer nights. You just don't get those [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > sitting out on the deck late at night. Yes, you can do that here, but > it does get chilly. That's one of the things I miss about the north. It would be nice not to have to worry about getting heat stroke at 9 pm. I miss the snow. We were watching Due South dvds the other day and one of them was the Mounties on the train, where they sing "Ride Forever." It takes place in snow, and I found myself getting so homesick. I personally like a little bite in the air. But then I'm not a native down here.
Pam S.
W. Leong - 22 May 2006 13:47 GMT > That's one of the things I miss about the north. It would be nice not to > have to worry about getting heat stroke at 9 pm. I miss the snow. We were > watching Due South dvds the other day and one of them was the Mounties on > the train, where they sing "Ride Forever." It takes place in snow, and I > found myself getting so homesick. I personally like a little bite in the > air. But then I'm not a native down here. There is definitely a bite in the air these days near the end of May. What happen to spring? There are frost warnings and snow flurries in the forecast. I have my AC cleaned out but now I may have to turn the heat back on. Good thing I haven't put away my winter boots. The coats are always in the coat closet.
Winnie
> Pam S. Tanada - 22 May 2006 06:25 GMT > As for the gyno annoyances most females dread "the menopause" as it > marks end of youth/reproduction ability. Few were as "hip-hip-hooray" > over it as I was because I knew relief would follow......also I was one > of the lucky ones w/very few "hot flashes", ever. In s.FL., in summer, > you don't notice them much anyway if you're outside, LOL....as you > mention, thick humidity/heat. I had false menopause due to a hysterectomy when I was almost 32. It was drawn out at first because they had me on estrogen replacement therapy (ERT). When I finally was taken off of them, I went through menopause hard and fast. I love not having to go through periods, worrying about getting pregnant, messing with birth control, and dealing with the hormonal stress involved with being a sweet young thing.
Pam S. who was never sweet even when a young thing
Jo Firey - 22 May 2006 07:22 GMT >> As for the gyno annoyances most females dread "the menopause" as it >> marks end of youth/reproduction ability. Few were as "hip-hip-hooray" [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > pregnant, messing with birth control, and dealing with the hormonal stress > involved with being a sweet young thing. While I applaud their motives, I'd personally like a few words with the groups that decided too many unnecessary hysterectomies were being performed and put a lot of pressure on doctors to justify in the extreme each and every one.
I went through years of hell and migraines and pain and never getting the hormones quite right before I finally grew big enough fibroids that I finally was given the option. By then bladder control was becoming a thing of the past as well.
When the doctor asked if I would consider a hysterectomy I replied hell yes. I'd far rather has a working bladder that I use daily than a uterus that I've never made any use of and that had been a nuisance to put it kindly.
Then he asked if I wanted to keep my ovaries. Told him my Grandma died of ovarian cancer, and the sooner I was rid of them the happier I would be.
No regrets ever.
No more migraines.
I quit taking estrogen a couple of years ago. And think I still look darn good for sixty.
Jo
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 20 May 2006 23:48 GMT > I wonder about that. I specifically asked about side effects, but he > said nothing. I find this odd. It wasn't just an oversight on his part, since you'd made a point of asking. A lot of doctors dismiss the issue of side effects.
And dnr is right that if a medication is really helpful to you, then you choose to live with the side effects. But you have to weigh them against each other: Are the side-effects dangerous? Do you still take the medication anyway? Maybe you do if your condition is also life-threatening. But if your isn't life-theatening, do you risk your life or health to feel better?
I'm not making a value judgement here - these are just questions to consider when trying a drug that has strong side effects.
dnr wrote:
>> This is of no interest to you but I am (probably because of what I >> used to work at) Western medicine believer and have no regard for >> alternatives.
> Well, I didn't start seeing alternative medicine options because of my > belly, or because I disliked Western medicine as a whole. I started > going to massage and acupuncture because my orthopedic surgeons flat > out told me that they couldn't figure out what was wrong with my > wrist. My opinion is that there are some things Western medicine knows how to treat very well, and I wouldn't go anywhere else for treatment if I had those problems, eg, a broken leg, strep throat, or appendicitis.
But there are some things where the Western mode tends to be ineffective, such as many chronic pain conditions. I think it makes a lot of sense to look into alternatives in those cases. Not all alternative medicine is woo-woo flakiness. Chinese medicine has been around for thousands of years, and some of it is accepted here (even if insurance companies are slow to catch up with the trend!).
So it depends on what your complaint is. In some cases, a combination of modalites can be very helpful, too. If you can get providers who are sympathetic to each other's approaches, that can be extremely effective.
> It may be of interest that my acupuncturist is not only covered by > insurance, but is actually in network. That's really great! Apparently *some* insurance companies have caught up. :)
> One other thing he said is that he finds it highly unlikely that it > could be anything having to do with reproductive organs, because > diarrhea isn't typically associated with that. But I thought it could > be. Do you (or anyone else) have thoughts about that? Well, I sometimes would get diarrhea at the onset of my period, so I think there must be some connection. You have different hormones flowing through your body at different times of the month - why shouldn't that affect other systems, such as digestion?
Joyce
W. Leong - 21 May 2006 01:29 GMT > I find this odd. It wasn't just an oversight on his part, since you'd > made a point of asking. A lot of doctors dismiss the issue of side [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > of years, and some of it is accepted here (even if insurance companies > are slow to catch up with the trend!).
> > It may be of interest that my acupuncturist is not only covered by > > insurance, but is actually in network. I heard in Vancouver, Chinese herbal doctors and accupunturists are licensed and registered. The only thing I don't like about Chinese medicine is some herbal medicine taste and smell just awful. Still remember as a kid, my brother fought and screamed when he was forced to take bad tasting medicine. Kind of like Rusty fought me forcing a pill down his throat Me, I was a good kid and just down the Chinese med as fast as possible and eat some sweet treats afterwards.
Winnie
Monique Y. Mudama - 21 May 2006 05:44 GMT > I heard in Vancouver, Chinese herbal doctors and accupunturists are > licensed and registered. The only thing I don't like about Chinese [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Chinese med as fast as possible and eat some sweet treats > afterwards. Huh. I've tried a few Chinese herbs, but all rolled into little tasteless pills.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
W. Leong - 21 May 2006 18:27 GMT > Huh. I've tried a few Chinese herbs, but all rolled into little > tasteless pills. Lucky you! A Chinese herbal doctor usually presribed some herbs that have to be boiled with water for hours until only a small amount is left for drinking. This method probably extracts the ingredients from the herb and concentrate them. Plus it is customized for an individual's needs. My mother went to a Chinese herbal doctor who 'cooked' the herbal med. himself for her to drink. That saved a lot of work.
Have you been inside a Chinese medicinal herbal shop? It has a distinct aroma. Some shops are better than others. I know there is one Chinese herbal shop in town that I would rather not go in. The one I frequent is fine and the shop keepers are very knowledgable and can offer advice and suggestions. They have a Chinese herbal doctor in the shop twice a week for consultation.
Winnie
Monique Y. Mudama - 22 May 2006 00:51 GMT >> Huh. I've tried a few Chinese herbs, but all rolled into little >> tasteless pills. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > himself > for her to drink. That saved a lot of work. I think these are a commercialized version of the same thing. They come in little bottles. But I don't know if they work as well as the real deal.
> Have you been inside a Chinese medicinal herbal shop? It has a distinct > aroma. No, I haven't ... actually, I can't think of where one would be around here. I picture them as typically being in a big city, but what do I know? My acupuncturist did say he knows a really good herbalist, but I feel like I'm already trying so many things at once that I shouldn't add anything more to it.
The two herb pills I have tried were for joints and for belly pain. I stopped taking the joint one when my belly got so bad, and I stopped taking the second one because I'm pretty sure it either did nothing or made my symptoms worse.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
dnr - 22 May 2006 01:24 GMT >> Have you been inside a Chinese medicinal herbal shop? It has a distinct >> aroma. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > made my symptoms worse. > monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully Chinese herbal shops are all over San Francisco (probably LA, too). My RB relative used to buy stuff sometimes at them; I went into one once w/her and if you ever do find one and visit it prepare yourself for culture shock. They are just as Winnie described them w/medical supervision by an appropriate source, and let's just say it looked to me like *everything* for sale in there was totally *organic* and of *natural* origin Surely Boulder, w/its rep for prizing "organic" would have these herb shops somewhere handy. Organic is a literal description of what was in the shop I visited.
W. Leong - 22 May 2006 01:52 GMT > Chinese herbal shops are all over San Francisco (probably LA, too). My > RB relative used to buy stuff sometimes at them; I went into one once [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > somewhere handy. Organic is a literal description of what was in the shop > I visited. I used to live in San Francisco (long long time ago) but never went to a Chinese herbal store there. I was much younger and healthier then and had no need for Chinese herbs. Things are very different now. Growing old is not fun, that's for sure. I just lost another friend to cancer yesterday. Used to be I went to many weddings, but now there are funerals.
Winnie
Monique Y. Mudama - 22 May 2006 02:15 GMT > I used to live in San Francisco (long long time ago) but never went > to a Chinese herbal store there. I was much younger and healthier > then and had no need for Chinese herbs. Things are very different > now. Growing old is not fun, that's for sure. I just lost another > friend to cancer yesterday. Used to be I went to many weddings, but > now there are funerals. *hug* Winnie
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
polonca12000 - 22 May 2006 21:30 GMT >>Chinese herbal shops are all over San Francisco (probably LA, too). My >>RB relative used to buy stuff sometimes at them; I went into one once [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Winnie I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. Lots and lots of hugs and purrs, Polonca and Soncek
Monique Y. Mudama - 22 May 2006 03:31 GMT > Chinese herbal shops are all over San Francisco (probably LA, too). > My RB relative used to buy stuff sometimes at them; I went into one [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > would have these herb shops somewhere handy. Organic is a literal > description of what was in the shop I visited. Probably somewhere.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
W. Leong - 22 May 2006 01:33 GMT > I think these are a commercialized version of the same thing. They > come in little bottles. But I don't know if they work as well as the > real deal. It is like cooking from scratch or taking a bottle off the shelf. The herbal doctor writes a 'presciption' on the amount and types of herbs. Then the shopkeeper of the herbs store will carefully measure out the amounts with a Chinese 'weighing device', and wrap everything in paper for you. There is even a special cooking 'pot' for 'cooking' Chinese herbal med. I saw some in a Chinese store the other day, so I guess people are still using them. It has 2 handles, one with a hole in it so steam can come out.
> No, I haven't ... actually, I can't think of where one would be around > here. I picture them as typically being in a big city, but what do I > know? My acupuncturist did say he knows a really good herbalist, but > I feel like I'm already trying so many things at once that I shouldn't > add anything more to it. Yes typically you only see them in Chinatowns or places where there are lots of Chinese living there. There is a general belief you shouldn't take western medicine and Chinese herbs at the same time as no one knows what interactions there may be.
> The two herb pills I have tried were for joints and for belly pain. I > stopped taking the joint one when my belly got so bad, and I stopped > taking the second one because I'm pretty sure it either did nothing or > made my symptoms worse. Do you know what the ingredients are? Just curious.
Winnie
John F. Eldredge - 22 May 2006 02:15 GMT >There is a general belief you shouldn't take western medicine and Chinese >herbs at the same time as no one knows what interactions there may be. Regardless of what type of medicines you are taking, it is a good idea to keep all of your doctors / pharmacists / herbalists aware of the full list of what you are taking, so that you won't get undesirable interactions between the drugs, or get too much of a particular effect from taking more than one medicine that does basically the same thing. There are even interactions between foods and medicines; I can't take any form of grapefruit because it interferes with my cholesterol medicine.
For the combination of medicines from different medical traditions, it would probably be a good idea to see if you could find someone that had cross-trained in both traditions, if possible.
 Signature John F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
W. Leong - 22 May 2006 02:23 GMT > For the combination of medicines from different medical traditions, it > would probably be a good idea to see if you could find someone that > had cross-trained in both traditions, if possible. I think there are more people that are cross-trained in both types of medicine now. The herbal doctor I know was also trained in western medicine and I think worked in a hospital. I know she advised my friend to be sure to get an ultrasound that was requested by my friend's 'regular doctor'.
Winnie
Monique Y. Mudama - 23 May 2006 06:26 GMT >> The two herb pills I have tried were for joints and for belly pain. >> I stopped taking the joint one when my belly got so bad, and I >> stopped taking the second one because I'm pretty sure it either did >> nothing or made my symptoms worse. > > Do you know what the ingredients are? Just curious. Let's see ...
The joint one is Guan Jie Yan Wan -- it has, um, do you want the list in Chinese or English? It's a long list!
The belly one is Xiang Sha Liu Jun Zi.
Both are produced by Plum Flower Brand.
I don't know if the joint one ever helped, but I can definitely tell the difference without my Glucosamine (I also stopped taking any supplements once my belly got so bad).
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
W. Leong - 23 May 2006 14:32 GMT > Let's see ... > > The joint one is Guan Jie Yan Wan -- it has, um, do you want the list > in Chinese or English? It's a long list! Guan Jie means joints. Yan mean inflammation Wan means pills. Put together it meansjoint inflamation pills. I googled it with language preference set to Chiese. Saw the ingredients. Only recognised Cinnamon, ginger (Zingiber officinale)
> The belly one is Xiang Sha Liu Jun Zi. This one has a strange name. Xiang Sha roughly means you stir fry till you get an aroma. Liu Jun Zi means 6 gentlemen. I guess it has 6 ingredients. This one also has ginger, and cardamon. Looks like you better take lots of ginger. Its good for both your tummy and joints. I massaged my sore muscles as well as my tummy with ginger essentail oil as well as drink ginger tea. My brother teased me about it and took me to a restaurant that serves a ginger dessert. It was yummy.
> Both are produced by Plum Flower Brand. Looks like it made lots of Chinese herbal pills. Sure will make it easier to take than making it from scatch. Who recommended these pills to you? Was it your accupunturist? Are they pricey? Some Chinese herbs like ginseng and birds nest (which is not exactly a herb) can be very expensive.
Winnie
> I don't know if the joint one ever helped, but I can definitely tell > the difference without my Glucosamine (I also stopped taking any > supplements once my belly got so bad). Howard C. Berkowitz - 22 May 2006 03:17 GMT I came late to the discussion, so don't know Monique's original symptoms, but let me make a few observations.
Symax is a preparation containing hyoscamine, which originally came from the henbane plant. I don't know if the hyoscamine in the pill is a plant extract or synthetic. Often, as with digitalis or other potent plant-derived drugs, the drug is now made synthetically so the precise concentration can be known--digitalis tea was one of the few effective heart drugs known to antiquity, but one plant's leaves might be inadequate and another strong enough to kill the patient.
Hyoscamine is an example of an anticholinergic drug of the muscarinic receptor antagonist family, about which Wikipedia has an OK writeup: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticholinergic The effect of interest here is that they relax smooth muscle, which makes up the gastrointestinal tract. They also decrease an assortment of secretions, including saliva and sweat.
If it works, keep doing it. In general, however, it's worth looking for dietary adjustments. This could be anything from increasing or decreasing fiber, or decreasing fat, or looking for food allergies.
I wouldn't dismiss a gastroentology consult so soon, because before any serious testing, an expert history and physical can tell a great deal. There are some basic tests worth doing, such as a complete blood count to give indications of bleeding or infection, a comprehensive metabolic panel ("chem-24") to check liver and kidney function (among other things), and, if there are indications of poor digestion, a fecal fat analysis. Definitely an occult blood test on the stool. The history and physical may suggest other blood tests. It's certainly worth testing for Helicobacter pylori infection if there's the slightest suspicion of an ulcer, because this curable infection accounts for about 85% of ulcers.
Sooner or later, a gastroenterologist is going to want a look (i.e., endoscopy or colonoscopy), either directly through a tube or by some form of imaging technique. Imaging ranges from upper and lower GI fluoroscopy with a swallowed or inserted contrast media, to CT or MRI visualization, to a rather creative new technique called capsule endoscopy. In the latter, the patient swallows a disposable color TV camera, and has antennas wrapped around her torso. It transmits a picture about twice a second, and is lower risk and often lower cost than some direct imaging. I'm speaking here, however, more of the rules for evaluating obscure bleeding, not just cramping.
Monique Y. Mudama - 22 May 2006 03:43 GMT > I came late to the discussion, so don't know Monique's original > symptoms, but let me make a few observations. Hi, Howard! Thank you for contributing to the discussion.
My symptoms are cramp-type pain in my lower abdomen and diarrhea/loose stool. For a while there was a very well-defined pattern; then it changed to a completely different but again well-defined pattern.
Acupuncture seems to help settle my abdomen in the short term, but not for more than a few hours.
Currently I have magnets in both ears, for stress and for intestines.
> Hyoscamine is an example of an anticholinergic drug of the > muscarinic receptor antagonist family, about which Wikipedia has an > OK writeup: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticholinergic The effect > of interest here is that they relax smooth muscle, which makes up > the gastrointestinal tract. They also decrease an assortment of > secretions, including saliva and sweat. I seem to still be able to sweat pretty well. I get a little dry mouth, but not too badly. My GI doctor said that really, these medicines are not well understood. That they are called antispasmodics, but no one *really* knows why they seem to work for some people.
> If it works, keep doing it. In general, however, it's worth looking > for dietary adjustments. This could be anything from increasing or > decreasing fiber, or decreasing fat, or looking for food allergies. This is where I am confused, because this all makes sense to me, but my GI doctor said that outside of very specific and obvious food sensitivities, not to worry about what I'm eating. He said there's no such thing as "hard to digest" foods. That sounds like BS to me. He said it's okay to look for food sensitivities, but unless it's very obvious, not to drive myself crazy looking for a connection.
I'm now taking 20g of soluble fiber every day. I've been taking added fiber for a few weeks now, the 20g for a week, and no obvious effect. My regular doctor said that fiber supplements help some people, but make others worse, and the only way to know was to try 20g a day.
> I wouldn't dismiss a gastroentology consult so soon, because before > any serious testing, an expert history and physical can tell a great [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > there's the slightest suspicion of an ulcer, because this curable > infection accounts for about 85% of ulcers. Don't get me wrong: I am seeing a GI doctor and I will get the tests he recommends. I just wasn't real impressed by his chairside manner, and I worry about how dismissive he seemed to be of the idea that foods might affect this thing.
> Sooner or later, a gastroenterologist is going to want a look (i.e., > endoscopy or colonoscopy), either directly through a tube or by some [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > cost than some direct imaging. I'm speaking here, however, more of > the rules for evaluating obscure bleeding, not just cramping. Whatever tests he wants me to try, I'm game. I'd rather do too many than too few.
Another thing he said that bothered me is that he didn't think diarrhea had any correlation to reproductive organ problems. I know I've read that it can be related to ovarian issues. He did say it's something we can look into if all the GI tests fail to show anything, but still.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
dnr - 22 May 2006 06:39 GMT > Hi, Howard! Thank you for contributing to the discussion. > My symptoms are cramp-type pain in my lower abdomen and diarrhea/loose [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > but still. > monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully I repeat: WELCOME BACK, HOWARD! And welcome to St. Louis: although I've never even gone throuigh there, I've heard they've got some killer BBQ in that city.
Howard C. Berkowitz - 22 May 2006 07:30 GMT > I repeat: WELCOME BACK, HOWARD! And welcome to St. Louis: > although I've never even gone throuigh there, I've heard they've got > some killer BBQ in that city. Thanks much! I am still in something of a rest and recovery mode, but I hope to be getting some contracts soon, as in this week. I have been able to write some paid trade press articles.
While I am getting feline assistance, I do need to get my clowder back! Mr. Clark, I understand, is adapting quite well to dogs--I am told he has a low-level hiss that simply means "begone."
Howard C. Berkowitz - 22 May 2006 07:28 GMT > > I came late to the discussion, so don't know Monique's original > > symptoms, but let me make a few observations. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > stool. For a while there was a very well-defined pattern; then it > changed to a completely different but again well-defined pattern. Could be a lot of things, from irritable bowel, to a malabsorption syndrome, to an autoimmune disease of the intestines such as Crohn's disease. Malabsorption syndromes, such as sprue, often raise the fecal fat (visibly floating oil or stool) and gas. This is a combined laboratory and clinical diagnosis, but often is related to a food intolerance such as gluten or lactose. In general, this sort of disease is chronic but there are things that help.
I wouldn't take them in the middle of a workup, but there are an assortment of (often prescription) digestive supplements that may help -- pancreatic enzymes, etc.
> Acupuncture seems to help settle my abdomen in the short term, but not > for more than a few hours. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > antispasmodics, but no one *really* knows why they seem to work for > some people. Ummm...I wouldn't quite say there's no understanding. Side effects can limit them for some people.
Some tranquilizers have more anticholinergic effects than others, and can help break up a stress-related problem. These include Librium (chlordiazepoxide) and Ativan (lorazepam).
> > If it works, keep doing it. In general, however, it's worth looking > > for dietary adjustments. This could be anything from increasing or [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > said it's okay to look for food sensitivities, but unless it's very > obvious, not to drive myself crazy looking for a connection. While I can see the textbook I want, it's in a pile that I'd be scared to move this late -- interim shelves with things stacked horizontally. Will make some notes tomorrow.
> I'm now taking 20g of soluble fiber every day. I've been taking added > fiber for a few weeks now, the 20g for a week, and no obvious effect. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > something we can look into if all the GI tests fail to show anything, > but still. Monique Y. Mudama - 22 May 2006 16:22 GMT >> My GI doctor said that really, these medicines are not well >> understood. That they are called antispasmodics, but no one *really* >> knows why they seem to work for some people. > > Ummm...I wouldn't quite say there's no understanding. Side effects can > limit them for some people. See, this is exactly why this doctor irritates me. I have a feeling he has a "don't worry your pretty little head about the details" attitude to patient interaction, and that really irritates me. Hello -- it's *my* body. I have every right to make an informed decision.
He was highly recommended by my regular doctor, though, so I guess I'll give him another chance.
>> This is where I am confused, because this all makes sense to me, but >> my GI doctor said that outside of very specific and obvious food [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > to move this late -- interim shelves with things stacked horizontally. > Will make some notes tomorrow. Howard, thank you very much, but I know you're swamped right now. If you find the time to do that, that would be great, but you certainly don't have to and I don't want you to add any more stress to your life by worrying about having to get info for me.
I called the GI dr's office today and spoke to the nurse. "I'm out of <medication>, and I don't want to be!" She said she'd call in a prescription to my local pharmacy, so I should have some by this evening. In the meantime it will be interesting to see how my tummy feels today.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
Tanada - 22 May 2006 06:33 GMT > I came late to the discussion, so don't know Monique's original symptoms, > but let me make a few observations. HOWARD!!!!! YOu're Back!!!! How are you doing, have you got a place to live, are the cats with you yet, and is there anything we can do for you to get you back on your feet? And, yes, I said that in one breath.
Pam S. who's been concerned
Howard C. Berkowitz - 22 May 2006 07:33 GMT > > I came late to the discussion, so don't know Monique's original symptoms, > > but let me make a few observations. > > HOWARD!!!!! YOu're Back!!!! How are you doing, have you got a place to > live, are the cats with you yet, and is there anything we can do for you > to get you back on your feet? And, yes, I said that in one breath. Probably more fatigued that I thought. I'm staying with friends, one of whom is a physician, and getting advice on easing back from a fairly total physical and emotional exhaustion.
I talked to the cats last night, who are staying with my ex in Massachusetts. Hopefully, I can get them in about a month. One of the winning features of the last couple of weeks in Virginia was my car going out of control while backing out of the driveway, and totalling itself (an old Jeep) while it ate two other cars. The police and the insurance company both suspect that something in the fuel system failed and slammed the engine into full speed, but neither is willing to do the expensive analysis to find out. The police were nice enough to tell me that, and then just give a warning.Still, I have to get a car.
I'm still really figuring out what I need to do.
polonca12000 - 22 May 2006 21:33 GMT >>>I came late to the discussion, so don't know Monique's original > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > I'm still really figuring out what I need to do. Welcome back, Howard! We are purring and sending lots and lots of best wishes for your luck to change, Polonca and Soncek
Monique Y. Mudama - 21 May 2006 16:30 GMT > > I wonder about that. I specifically asked about side effects, but > > he said nothing. > > I find this odd. It wasn't just an oversight on his part, since > you'd made a point of asking. A lot of doctors dismiss the issue of > side effects. Yeah, I agree. Maybe he knows the incident rates are very low? Still, I did tell him about all the things I like to do -- told him I'm a weekend warrior. With all the outdoor stuff I do, you'd think he'd mention the possibility of heat-related side effects, especially coming up on the hottest weekend this year.
> And dnr is right that if a medication is really helpful to you, then > you choose to live with the side effects. But you have to weigh them > against each other: Are the side-effects dangerous? Do you still > take the medication anyway? Maybe you do if your condition is also > life-threatening. But if your isn't life-theatening, do you risk > your life or health to feel better? Right. We'll have to see. So far the only side effect I've definitely noticed is dry mouth (that extends to other areas that secrete ... which makes certain activities slightly more of a production than they should be ...)
> I'm not making a value judgement here - these are just questions to > consider when trying a drug that has strong side effects. No, I agree, we always have choices. Right now, the med seems so helpful that I really would hate to give it up.
I asked him, if this works, will I have to take it for the rest of my life? He basically told me to slow down and not anticipate, because there was no way to know at this point.
> My opinion is that there are some things Western medicine knows how > to treat very well, and I wouldn't go anywhere else for treatment if [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > around for thousands of years, and some of it is accepted here (even > if insurance companies are slow to catch up with the trend!). I agree. Western medicine is great when there's a very clearcut problem, and often when your life is at stake. But Western medicine doesn't seem to have a lot to say about problems that don't show up on tests.
> > It may be of interest that my acupuncturist is not only covered by > > insurance, but is actually in network. > > That's really great! Apparently *some* insurance companies have > caught up. :) Yeah. Oddly enough, they won't cover massage, even though my doctor prescribed it. So that comes entirely out of my pocket.
> Well, I sometimes would get diarrhea at the onset of my period, so I > think there must be some connection. You have different hormones > flowing through your body at different times of the month - why > shouldn't that affect other systems, such as digestion? That's a good point. I've also noticed my digestive system behaving differently at the onset of my period.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
Jane - 22 May 2006 14:27 GMT >And dnr is right that if a medication is really helpful to you, then you >choose to live with the side effects. But you have to weigh them against >each other: Are the side-effects dangerous? Do you still take the >medication anyway? Maybe you do if your condition is also life-threatening. >But if your isn't life-theatening, do you risk your life or health to feel >better? The first medication I got that actually did something for my migraines was Sansert - which turned out later to have rather deadly side effects. I didn't CARE. I would have rather died then go back to the daily pain. And I told the doctor just that. However, that's when the new doctor introduced me to Elavil,and I've been in love ever since.
Jane - owned and operated by Princess Rita
Monique Y. Mudama - 22 May 2006 14:41 GMT > The first medication I got that actually did something for my > migraines was Sansert - which turned out later to have rather deadly > side effects. I didn't CARE. I would have rather died then go back > to the daily pain. And I told the doctor just that. However, that's > when the new doctor introduced me to Elavil,and I've been in love > ever since. I'm so glad you found a medication that got rid of the pain *and* you could live with.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
Howard C. Berkowitz - 22 May 2006 16:34 GMT > >And dnr is right that if a medication is really helpful to you, then you > >choose to live with the side effects. But you have to weigh them against [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The first medication I got that actually did something for my migraines > was Sansert - which turned out later to have rather deadly side effects. Agreed. At one time, it was about all we had for preventing migraine. Today, it's a third-choice drug as best. I took it as a kid, and it didn't do anything -- which was not surprising given I didn't have migraine, but muscle contraction/tension headache. As with other symptoms, the neurologist demonstrated that not all neurologists are eccentric geniuses.
> I didn't CARE. I would have rather died then go back to the daily pain. > And I told the doctor just that. However, that's when the new doctor > introduced me to Elavil,and I've been in love ever since. Elavil (amitriptyline) is an excellent and extremely inexpensive drug for many chronic pain syndromes, given in doses less than the recommendations for depression -- it's a tricyclic antidepressant. It should be one of the first few drugs tried for migraine prevention. If there are no contraindications such as asthma, a beta-blocker (beta-adrenergic receptor antagonist) like propanol (Inderal) is probably the first-choice drug.
Apropos of Monique's problem, it has a fairly high incidence of anticholinergic side effects, but these side effects can be harnessed for gastrointestinal symptoms. If the anticholinergic effects are not desired, there are other drugs in its class, such as nortriptyline, that have less of these effects. I take nortriptyline as an antidepressant, as, for me, it has the best side effect profile, compared with Elavil, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRI) like Prozac, and atypical SSRIs like Paxil.
> Jane > - owned and operated by Princess Rita Jo Firey - 21 May 2006 02:52 GMT >I saw him on Thursday. It was mostly just a preliminary meeting to > talk about my symptoms. He's waiting to get the test results from my [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > homeopathy for this; the least I could do is give this Western > medicine specialist a chance. I like his not trying to play miracle worker without backup. Its too important to get this right.
As far as foods, when my gut is behaving I can eat just about anything. When it isn't I'm miserable no matter what I eat.
The only thing I have to always avoid if I want to stay comfortable is any kind of sweet drink like soda or juice. Especially at meal time.
Most annoying aspect of IBS symptoms for me is my anti-shopping reflex. I hate going shopping. Particularly Christmas shopping or such at the mall with my husband. Its about 45 minutes away. I can be just fine when I leave the house. I might have been OK for a week. But by the time we get to the danged mall all I care about is getting a parking place close to the restroom.
Jo
dnr - 21 May 2006 03:25 GMT > Most annoying aspect of IBS symptoms for me is my anti-shopping reflex. I > hate going shopping. Particularly Christmas shopping or such at the mall [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the restroom. > Jo I sure wish (not w/o sympathy for you) *I* had an "anti-shopping reflex"!
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 21 May 2006 04:04 GMT > Most annoying aspect of IBS symptoms for me is my anti-shopping reflex. > I hate going shopping. LOL, I hate going shopping too, and I don't even have IBS. :) I particularly hate malls. Thank god for online shopping! :)
Joyce
Monique Y. Mudama - 21 May 2006 16:23 GMT > I like his not trying to play miracle worker without backup. Its > too important to get this right. Yeah, that part I think is good.
> As far as foods, when my gut is behaving I can eat just about > anything. When it isn't I'm miserable no matter what I eat. I *think* that I can somewhat affect how I feel by what foods I eat. But maybe not. Certainly not enough to make the pain or other nasty effects go away.
> The only thing I have to always avoid if I want to stay comfortable > is any kind of sweet drink like soda or juice. Especially at meal > time. Huh, interesting. Sweets don't seem to matter to me. I've been avoiding soda, though, which isn't a big loss, as I already wasn't drinking anything caffeinated.
> Most annoying aspect of IBS symptoms for me is my anti-shopping > reflex. I hate going shopping. Particularly Christmas shopping or > such at the mall with my husband. Its about 45 minutes away. I can > be just fine when I leave the house. I might have been OK for a > week. But by the time we get to the danged mall all I care about is > getting a parking place close to the restroom. Oh, wow. I'm so sorry. That would be awful, *especially* during heavy shopping days.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
Jo Firey - 21 May 2006 18:14 GMT >> I like his not trying to play miracle worker without backup. Its >> too important to get this right. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Oh, wow. I'm so sorry. That would be awful, *especially* during > heavy shopping days. The worst part (well the second worst part) is convincing Charlie I'm really not faking it.
As far as sweet drinks, they can cause stuff to leave your stomach too quickly, called gastric dumping. And that can cause the small intestine to pitch a fit.
That can be bad enough when there isn't anything else in your stomach. But worse if you are eating food too.
Jo
Monique Y. Mudama - 22 May 2006 00:48 GMT > As far as sweet drinks, they can cause stuff to leave your stomach > too quickly, called gastric dumping. And that can cause the small > intestine to pitch a fit. > > That can be bad enough when there isn't anything else in your > stomach. But worse if you are eating food too. I don't think this affects me. Today I made a smoothie with apple and cranberry juice, a bunch of frozen berries, and some vanilla frozen yoghurt. Very tart and fairly sweet.
The thing that worries me? I don't have a dose of the medication for tonight. I need to call them ASAP on Monday to get a prescription. I hope I won't be too bad tonight.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
W. Leong - 22 May 2006 01:25 GMT > I don't think this affects me. Today I made a smoothie with > apple and cranberry juice, a bunch of frozen berries, and some vanilla > frozen yoghurt. Very tart and fairly sweet. Sounds yummy. Please post the recipe. I love smoothies, but have never used cranberry juice. I have a bottle in my fridge and some frozen blueberries and raspberries and love to try them in a smoothie.
I had some ricotta cheese with raspberries tonight. Decided to let Rust try a little bit of the ricotta. He loves it. Now next time when I have to pill him, I can try grounding up the pill and mix it with ricotta.
Winnie
> The thing that worries me? I don't have a dose of the medication for > tonight. I need to call them ASAP on Monday to get a prescription. I > hope I won't be too bad tonight. Monique Y. Mudama - 22 May 2006 02:13 GMT >> I don't think this affects me. Today I made a smoothie with apple >> and cranberry juice, a bunch of frozen berries, and some vanilla [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > frozen blueberries and raspberries and love to try them in a > smoothie. Necessity is the mother of invention -- I wanted to make it just with apple juice, but there wasn't enough. Rather than just using water to thin it, I used some cranberry juice. (Okay, and water later on, because I *still* needed a little more liquid.) It didn't affect the flavor at all, maybe because all the berries were already so tart.
This is only the second time I've made this type of smoothie; there's a restaurant called Le Peep nearby that makes a great smoothie they call Berrymost. I've watched them make it so often that I realized I could just make it for myself.
One thing -- I haven't really found a good way to get it all mixed up well. I buy the berries frozen in the supermarket, and especially the strawberries are very hard to blend. So this time I defrosted them a little bit in the microwave -- just enough so that they weren't stuck to each other anymore.
Anyway, here is my very vague recipe. I know what I put in, but not the amounts:
"some" apple juice (probably more than you think you'll need)
frozen berries (I used strawberries, blackberries, and raspberries, about a handful each, but then I end up with 3 tall glasses)
"some" vanilla frozen yoghurt (of course you could use ice cream as well)
Toss it all in the blender and blend it forever. Poke around and find that there are a bunch of berries still whole. Blend some more. Add some apple juice if it seems like it's too thick to blend well. Blend some more, until you get tired of blending and just dump it in a glass, mostly blended.
For fun, you can put some whipped cream on top.
It ends up kind of a hot pink / purple color and tastes great, if you like tart flavors.
> I had some ricotta cheese with raspberries tonight. Decided to let > Rust try a little bit of the ricotta. He loves it. Now next time > when I have to pill him, I can try grounding up the pill and mix it > with ricotta. I really hope that works for you and Rusty!
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
W. Leong - 22 May 2006 02:55 GMT > Necessity is the mother of invention -- I wanted to make it just with > apple juice, but there wasn't enough. Rather than just using water to > thin it, I used some cranberry juice. (Okay, and water later on, > because I *still* needed a little more liquid.) It didn't affect the > flavor at all, maybe because all the berries were already so tart. I bought a bottle of 'pure 100%' cranberry juice from the health food store. It has no sugar or other juice added. I have to dilute it with water before I can drink it.
> This is only the second time I've made this type of smoothie; there's > a restaurant called Le Peep nearby that makes a great smoothie they [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > little bit in the microwave -- just enough so that they weren't stuck > to each other anymore. I use frozen berries and have no problem blending them using a food processor.
> Anyway, here is my very vague recipe. I know what I put in, but not > the amounts: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > "some" vanilla frozen yoghurt (of course you could use ice cream as > well) No ice cream for me as I am lactose intolerance. I use just plain low fat yogurt for smoothies. It is healthies that way too.
> Toss it all in the blender and blend it forever. Poke around and find > that there are a bunch of berries still whole. Blend some more. Add [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > It ends up kind of a hot pink / purple color and tastes great, if you > like tart flavors. You sparked my interest in using cranberry juice for smoothies. as I am trying to up my cranberry intake. I googled and found lots of smoothie recipes at : http://www.vegfamily.com/vegan-pregnancy/fruit-smoothies.htm
I know it says pregancy there, but we don't have to be pregnant to eat (or drink) smoothies
> I really hope that works for you and Rusty! I hope he doesn't need any pill for a long time.
Winnie
Monique Y. Mudama - 22 May 2006 03:30 GMT >> Necessity is the mother of invention -- I wanted to make it just >> with apple juice, but there wasn't enough. Rather than just using [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > food store. It has no sugar or other juice added. I have to dilute > it with water before I can drink it. Ohh. That stuff.
I'm sorry; I actually meant a cranberry blend. It's all juices, but uses several other fruits so that it's not so strong.
I tried drinking pure cranberry juice once. Man. Even diluting it so it's about 5 parts water to 1 part juice wasn't good enough. Yuck. Vile stuff.
> I use frozen berries and have no problem blending them using a food > processor. I have a blender, but no food processor. Maybe that's the difference. Other people don't seem to have issues with their blenders. This is supposed to be a top of the line blender and we got it as a wedding gift, so I'd hate to think it doesn't work well.
> No ice cream for me as I am lactose intolerance. I use just plain > low fat yogurt for smoothies. It is healthies that way too. Ice cream bothers you, but yogurt doesn't it? Interesting.
> You sparked my interest in using cranberry juice for smoothies. as > I am trying to up my cranberry intake. I googled and found lots of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I know it says pregancy there, but we don't have to be pregnant to > eat (or drink) smoothies Nice!
Another one I do is a banana, some milk (soy milk works great, too), and cocoa powder. Yum! I find that the blender doesn't chop up bananas as well as I'd like, so I mash the banana with a fork before I put the banana in. (Hrm, maybe there really is something wrong with the blender. Or maybe there's some blender-using skill I lack.)
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
W. Leong - 22 May 2006 04:08 GMT >> I bought a bottle of 'pure 100%' cranberry juice from the health >> food store. It has no sugar or other juice added. I have to dilute [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I'm sorry; I actually meant a cranberry blend. It's all juices, but > uses several other fruits so that it's not so strong. I purposedly avoid juice blends because I want to get the benefit of cranberry juice. The 100% cranberry jucie is a lot more pricey too.
> I tried drinking pure cranberry juice once. Man. Even diluting it so > it's about 5 parts water to 1 part juice wasn't good enough. Yuck. > Vile stuff. If you think that is vile, you better not try Chinese herbal medicine made from scratch.
> I have a blender, but no food processor. Maybe that's the difference. > Other people don't seem to have issues with their blenders. This is > supposed to be a top of the line blender and we got it as a wedding > gift, so I'd hate to think it doesn't work well. > > Ice cream bothers you, but yogurt doesn't it? Interesting. Ice cream doesn't always bother me, just on occasions. The lactose in yougurt is broken down by the bacteria in it to simple sugar, so it is not a problem. It is the same idea as 'lactose free' milk. The lactase enzyme which is missing or lacking in lactose intolerant people are added to the milk to breakdown the lactose, making the milk tastes sweeter. I used to buy the enzyme and put it in 'regular milk', wait 24 hours before I drink it. Now I don't bother with it, and just drink fortified soy milk instead The calcium content is the same as that of milk.
> Nice! > > Another one I do is a banana, some milk (soy milk works great, too), > and coco |
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