Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / May 2006
City Utilities was here.
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Pat - 01 May 2006 23:45 GMT I phoned this morning and got a secretary who has no clue what a kilowatt hour is. She sent a guy over with a truck and I explained to him that I don't have a furnace that uses electricity, don't have an electric stove or dishwasher, don't even own a portable electric heater, haven't used the dryer yet, etc. He took the new electric meter reading and saw that I haven't used 300 Kwh in the past month. Did the same with the water meter. But he didn't tell me the answer to the riddle. I did go to see an acquaintance who runs and electrical & plumbing supply store and told him the whole story. He says the city is notorious for incorrect meter readings and will probably find out that's what the problem is.
I'll post again when it gets resolved one way or another. My neighbor across the street who has a normal forced-air furnace, an electric stove, clothes dryer that she uses regularly, etc. had a much lower bill last month than I did.
Irulan - 02 May 2006 00:53 GMT Pat, sounds like things are looking up. Hope it was all a mistake on THEIR part, and that you get the correct bill soon, also for the water bill. Hang in there, house ownership ain't that bad. :) Lily & her mama
 Signature Irulan from the stars we come to the stars we return from now until the end of time
>I phoned this morning and got a secretary who has no clue what a kilowatt >hour is. She sent a guy over with a truck and I explained to him that I [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > clothes dryer that she uses regularly, etc. had a much lower bill last > month than I did. Matthew AKA NMR - 02 May 2006 05:20 GMT > Pat, sounds like things are looking up. Hope it was all a mistake on THEIR > part, and that you get the correct bill soon, also for the water bill. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> clothes dryer that she uses regularly, etc. had a much lower bill last >> month than I did. You may need to get a master electrician out there sounds liek you have a trickle problem. It means inadeqate fuses or wiring that is overheating or flowing way to much power to a point of use. How old is the house it it more than 15 years I would start right at the power box and check the fuses.
I made my utilities company install a computerized meter on our house. I was getting constant wrong bills. They were off by about $20 - $100 month. I got solar power installed for the pool and the home. The meter guy was coming by and estimating the usage by the square footage would walk to the meter look real quick and leave. I went outside wrote down the numbers they were always way off Once they got that new meter in no more problems. They installed a wireless reading port. They just drive by point the reader gun and don't even have to get their lazy butts out of the truck
Monique Y. Mudama - 02 May 2006 15:30 GMT > I made my utilities company install a computerized meter on our > house. I was getting constant wrong bills. They were off by about [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > wireless reading port. They just drive by point the reader gun and > don't even have to get their lazy butts out of the truck This gives me new insight into our local power company's ads on how you can save energy. What a great idea -- encourage your customers to save energy, then "estimate" their usage so that you can skim some off the top!
Okay, the local one may not be doing that ... honestly, DH handles the electricity bill and I have no idea what we pay.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
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Adrian A - 02 May 2006 10:25 GMT > I phoned this morning and got a secretary who has no clue what a > kilowatt hour is. She sent a guy over with a truck and I explained to [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > stove, clothes dryer that she uses regularly, etc. had a much lower > bill last month than I did. It looks hopefull that things will soon be sorted out. It must have been one hell of a fright getting that bill.
 Signature Adrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart. http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk
sriddles@aol.com - 02 May 2006 16:03 GMT > I phoned this morning and got a secretary who has no clue what a kilowatt > hour is. She sent a guy over with a truck and I explained to him that I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the whole story. He says the city is notorious for incorrect meter readings > and will probably find out that's what the problem is. Pfft. I bet it isn't an error in reading; I bet they didn't even read it at all, and just estimated it. They do that by averaging the last couple of months or so of usage in that house. Sometimes in small town, there's only one "meter man". Or sometimes the other city employees take turns doing it. They save time by estimating, and the next month they read it, so you "catch up." Sounds like your next month's bill would be *very* low, maybe even negative!
Sherry
Pat - 02 May 2006 16:37 GMT > Pfft. I bet it isn't an error in reading; I bet they didn't even read > it at all, and just estimated it. They do that by averaging the last [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Sounds like your next month's bill would be *very* low, maybe even > negative! If it was an estimate, a note to that effect should appear somewhere on the bill, but it does not.
I don't know why they would fail to read the meters when the previous occupants had the utilities shut off, or again when I had the new loop installed. The guy from the city - same guy that was here yesterday - was present when the electric was turned on in my name.
Jo Firey - 02 May 2006 16:59 GMT >> Pfft. I bet it isn't an error in reading; I bet they didn't even read >> it at all, and just estimated it. They do that by averaging the last [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > installed. The guy from the city - same guy that was here yesterday - was > present when the electric was turned on in my name. If they estimated the ending reading or misread it, it will self correct the next month. What worries me is that if they misread the beginning reading. Or didn't read it at all but are going back to the last (and possibly wrong) reading for the previous customers.
Also here, we pay for electric in tiers. a basic bit is cheap, the next amount is higher and then there is a much higher third rate for anything over that as it is considered excessive or luxury use. So if you double your use, it will at least triple your bill.
Jo
Pat - 02 May 2006 17:30 GMT I just spoke with the utility office again. They said my bill was not estimated, the start reading is the same as the end reading on the previous occupants' bill. They are insisting that this bill I got is accurate. They suggested I go talk with the Mayor.
I guess I'll be talking with a real estate broker instead.
Adrian A - 02 May 2006 17:45 GMT > I just spoke with the utility office again. They said my bill was not > estimated, the start reading is the same as the end reading on the > previous occupants' bill. They are insisting that this bill I got is > accurate. They suggested I go talk with the Mayor. > > I guess I'll be talking with a real estate broker instead. I'd be tearing my hair out (if I had any) in your position. How can you *prove* they've got wrong?
 Signature Adrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart. http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) - 02 May 2006 19:00 GMT >>I just spoke with the utility office again. They said my bill was not >>estimated, the start reading is the same as the end reading on the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I'd be tearing my hair out (if I had any) in your position. How can you > *prove* they've got wrong? I'd suggest taking them up on THEIR suggestion and go "talk with the Mayor" - or better yet your local TV news "investigative reporter". SOMEONE obviously goofed, or your present reading wouldn't be so much lower. (You CAN "fight City Hall", it just takes determination and getting a few other people on your side, too.)
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Irulan - 02 May 2006 20:02 GMT Pat this is a good idea. Try to see if someone in your local TV news channel might be interested in taking a look at this. It is just so wrong. Good luck. Lily & her mama
 Signature Irulan from the stars we come to the stars we return from now until the end of time
> >>>I just spoke with the utility office again. They said my bill was not [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > lower. (You CAN "fight City Hall", it just takes determination and > getting a few other people on your side, too.) jmcquown - 03 May 2006 08:06 GMT > Pat this is a good idea. Try to see if someone in your local TV news > channel might be interested in taking a look at this. It is just so > wrong. Good luck. > Lily & her mama In Memphis they have this news guy who looks into stuff, can't think of his name but I'm sure there is someone in Missouri who does the same sort of thing. And there is the Mayor's Action Line; maybe something similar where Pat lives.
Jill
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 03 May 2006 12:10 GMT > > Pat this is a good idea. Try to see if someone in your local TV news > > channel might be interested in taking a look at this. It is just so [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > thing. And there is the Mayor's Action Line; maybe something similar where > Pat lives. You mean the ombudsman?
Joyce
Chakolate - 02 May 2006 20:07 GMT > I'd suggest taking them up on THEIR suggestion and go "talk > with the Mayor" - or better yet your local TV news > "investigative reporter". SOMEONE obviously goofed, or your > present reading wouldn't be so much lower. (You CAN "fight > City Hall", it just takes determination and getting a few > other people on your side, too.) Before you contact the local tv news, be sure to make as much effort as you can to get it resolved. The 'investigative reporter' types don't really want to get involved unless you can show that you've already tried just about everything. It's a better story if you're at the end of your rope.
Chak
 Signature In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination. --Mark Twain
Pat - 02 May 2006 20:10 GMT >> I'd suggest taking them up on THEIR suggestion and go "talk >> with the Mayor" - or better yet your local TV news [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > just about everything. It's a better story if you're at the end of your > rope. Absolutely correct. I just sent a letter to the mayor, Leon Harris. It's posted lower in this thread.
sriddles@aol.com - 02 May 2006 18:01 GMT > I just spoke with the utility office again. They said my bill was not > estimated, the start reading is the same as the end reading on the previous > occupants' bill. They are insisting that this bill I got is accurate. They > suggested I go talk with the Mayor. > > I guess I'll be talking with a real estate broker instead. This is just a thought, but when you go speak to the higher-ups, you might make a list of everything you have that runs off electricity, and estimate how many hours a day that you use things like computer, TV, etc. Then, if they will give you the info., get the average monthly bill for the tenants who were in the house before you, how many occupants were in it, etc. If the bills vary wildly, you know there is a problem with the meter or something. This is just so wrong. There has to be a way to correct it. Sherry
Matthew AKA NMR - 02 May 2006 18:14 GMT >> I just spoke with the utility office again. They said my bill was not >> estimated, the start reading is the same as the end reading on the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > This is just so wrong. There has to be a way to correct it. > Sherry Sounds like a lazy utility worker not wanting to bother with it.
1 request a list of usage from the last year and the shut off date of the last user. They have to do it but don't have to provide you the customers personal info
2 request a supervisor to deal with if none is available request the name and phone number of their superior.
3 request a test of the home for drainage this may have to be paid for by you. it can determine if something is over drawing. I had an refrigerator that was costing me $200 extra month due to a faulty compressor
4 the mayor has nothing to do with the utilities unless they are chartered directly thru the city. Than a visit to his office is required
5 if I remember right you are in Missouri contact http://www.missourienergy.org/
Karen - 02 May 2006 19:34 GMT > 2 request a supervisor to deal with if none is available request the name > and phone number of their superior. YOu would not believe how often THIS is what you need to do. I totally agree this is the next step.
Chakolate - 02 May 2006 20:09 GMT > 1 request a list of usage from the last year and the shut off date of > the last user. They have to do it but don't have to provide you the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > 5 if I remember right you are in Missouri contact > http://www.missourienergy.org/ And document *everything*. Every person you talked to, their name, title and extension, the date, time, and what was said. Being able to say 'I talked to <name> on <date> at <time> and was told <whatever>' is so much more convincing than saying 'I spoke to somebody a while ago'.
Chak
 Signature In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination. --Mark Twain
Karen - 02 May 2006 19:34 GMT I"d take it up further. If the utilities guy came out and said what he said, they have to do something. I'd do that before doing what you are thinking of. It is *obviously* a mistake. And who did you talk to at the utilities office? Ask for a manager. Don't give up so easily.
> I just spoke with the utility office again. They said my bill was not > estimated, the start reading is the same as the end reading on the previous > occupants' bill. They are insisting that this bill I got is accurate. They > suggested I go talk with the Mayor. > > I guess I'll be talking with a real estate broker instead. Pat - 02 May 2006 20:09 GMT > I"d take it up further. If the utilities guy came out and said what he > said, > they have to do something. I'd do that before doing what you are thinking > of. It is *obviously* a mistake. And who did you talk to at the utilities > office? Ask for a manager. Don't give up so easily. It was the manager I spoke with. I've written to the mayor. Here's what I wrote:
Dear Mr. Harris,
Recently I moved back to Ava after living out in Douglas County for over six years, and I have just received a big shock. Please hear me out... This is a serious situation for me, the outcome of which will determine whether I can continue to occupy the home I just bought here. If not, I will have to live in my car.
I live alone and am very frugal. Always have been. On my income - about $800 per month - it's my only choice, but I would do the same if I was rich; wasting anything is abhorrent to me. That's how I was raised. My parents lived through the depression.
Anyhow, I moved in about 9 weeks ago. Before buying the house, I had to examine my budget very closely to be certain I could afford the costs of home ownership.
I spent 9 years in northern Arizona with no electricity, phone or running water. I hauled every drop of my water. Extreme conservation became a habit that I've never entirely broken. To this day, I still shower only once a week, and it is a "navy shower", the rest of the time I sponge bathe at sink.
When I brush my teeth, I fill a small glass and use it rather than leave the faucet on. The toilet gets flushed 2x/day. I have no dishwasher, no microwave oven, no hair dryer. My only luxuries are a personal computer that's shut down every night and a blender that I haven't unpacked yet.
I've washed perhaps half a dozen loads of laundry since moving in. My dryer hasn't been used in this house yet, as the cord isn't attached. My fridge is not very old and it's small, and I keep it on the lowest setting where ice cream barely remains solid in the freezer.
The heater is propane and does not use electricity at all. I don't have an electric space heater. There was an electric stove here when I bought the place, but I never used it and replaced with propane. The water heater is electric but less than a year old and one of the most efficient made. I set the temp. dials on 110, and it hardly ever kicks on.
City Utilities made me upgrade the meter loop before I could get electricity turned on. It was shut off on about 2/10 when the previous occupants left. Water was also shut off at that time.
Before buying the house, I spoke with City Utilities to learn the minimum monthly charges, for budgeting purposes. I had lived in Ava for eight months starting 8/1/99, so I already had some idea, but I wanted to refresh my memory and be more sure of the figures.
I knew the electric would be the highest item but was not concerned about it, since for six years on WRVEC**, my bills had always been under $30 - even watering the next door neighbor's horses from my well. I had no air conditioning there and don't plan to have it here. I had a/c when I lived in Ava before, but as I recall the bills were not over $60 in the two months when it was used.
Can you imagine how stunned I was when I saw that my first electric bill for this house was over $100? That may not sound like a lot to you but it's a deal-killer to me.
According to my bill, I used 1,433KWH from 2/28 through 3/27, and City Utilities swears by their figures.
I asked 86-year-old Nell Hester, who lives across the street, about her bill. She has a forced-air furnace, keeps the place pretty warm, uses an electric stove and electric water heater. Her bill for the same period was $80.
On my request, Jo Firey checked the number of Kwh she was billed for last month. Her response was:
"We used 839KWH of electric last month. There are five of us and we are power hogs. Water we used about 7000 gallons. That includes two teenage boys who shower here at least once a day, tons of laundry and a few leaks."
My water usage, supposedly, was 3,690 gallons in March. That's over 100 gallons a day, but my toilets do not run on, nor do my faucets leak. For comparison's sake, in Arizona I used an average of five gallons a day, while caring for three dogs, five cats and a small garden!
On Sunday, I turned off all the breakers here, read the meter and went out for a few hours. When I got back, the dial had not moved. That reading showed I had used just over 200KWH since the recent bill. So we're talking 1,433KWH in March vs. 200+ in April.
My next step was to call City Utilities to try and find out what's going on. Is the meter reading when the previous occupant moved out the same as the reading when my billing began? Yes, they say, it is.
Then I called Leland Barnes, who installed the new meter loop, and explained my predicament. His suggestion was "call the mayor". That's you....
I thought Barnes was either joking or being facetious, so instead of calling you, I visited Ray's Electric and told my story. That store is big and has lots of lights that are on all day, and their electric bill was also lower than mine.
I mentioned to Ray the discrepancy between my last month's usage and the reading Sunday, and that shot down his guess that perhaps there was a bare wire sticking in the ground under the house and pulling amps.
When I called City Utilities again, they also said "call the mayor." I still don't feel quite comfortable with the idea of bending your ear to explain my predicament, hence this letter.
Obviously something is way wrong with either my house or the utility bills.... there's no way I used 1,433KWH of power during the month of March, I didn't finish moving until 3/11 and didn't plug in the fridge or turn on the water heater until then!
I sure hope you'll help get this matter resolved. I am against a wall with nowhere left to turn.
**WRVEC=White River Valley Electric Cooperative
Karen - 02 May 2006 20:40 GMT That is a very good letter.
> > I"d take it up further. If the utilities guy came out and said what he > > said, [quoted text clipped - 118 lines] > > **WRVEC=White River Valley Electric Cooperative MaryL - 02 May 2006 22:51 GMT <snip>
> Obviously something is way wrong with either my house or the utility > bills.... there's no way I used 1,433KWH of power during the month of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > **WRVEC=White River Valley Electric Cooperative Pat,
To give you some figures for comparison: My house is 2,732 sq. ft. That includes a sunroom (441 sq. ft.) with windows all around 2 ½ sides. I live in East Texas and like it cool indoors, so I run the air conditioner almost all year. I also use the oven and microwave oven every day (and must admit to leaving lights on when they should not be on.) On the plus side, it is a very energy efficient house - I invested in the most energy-efficient windows and had lots of additional insulation blown in. With all that, I used 704KW for the month of March. You would use extra energy if you don't have proper insulation, but it should not be *nearly* the amount you showed for the lifestyle you live. So, something is clearly wrong - either there is leakage of some sort (even if not yet detected) or the meter is being read incorrectly, or possibly the meter is defective. You may have to get an electrician and/or plumber to inspect because you would probably be responsible for any defects on "your" side of the house from the supply lines, but the city should inspect their lines first.
MaryL
polonca12000 - 02 May 2006 22:55 GMT >>I"d take it up further. If the utilities guy came out and said what he >>said, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > **WRVEC=White River Valley Electric Cooperative Lots and lots of purrs and best wishes for your problem to be solved really soon, Polonca and Soncek
Nomen Nescio - 02 May 2006 23:40 GMT -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>From: "Pat" <pdavis@fidnetspam.com>
>It was the manager I spoke with. I've written to the mayor. Here's what I >wrote: Assuming that everything you wrote is true, we know a few things with reasonable certainty:
1) Your meter is properly calibrated. 2) you do not have electrical leakage in the house wiring.
So what's left?
1) You have a high draw appliance that was plugged in during March that was not in use during April.
2) The initial meter reading was incorrect.
3) you mistakenly used more power than you thought.
- From what you say, we can probably rule out (1) & (3)
That leaves only (2)
So asuming it was an incorrect initial meter reading, how can that be determined.
The part that I'm kinda fuzzy on is the work that was done to turn on your electricity. Was the power physically disconnected?
Around here a change of owner is handled one of two ways. 1) Power to the house remains on - Someone shows up and reads the meter.......previous owner pays until the reading, you pay after the reading.
2) Power is physically disconnected - electricity is shut off at the pole, and the METER IS REMOVED.
Looking at (2), if the meter is removed you will NOT get the same meter when it is reconnected. Therefore the initial reading for you will NOT match the ending reading for the previous owner. So, if they installed a new meter, THERE'S YOUR PROBLEM !
for case (1), the only answer is an incorrect meter reading. That will be tough to prove. For future reference.....check the meter reading the moment that they start billing you. What can you do now? 1) Ask the power company to FULLY investigate the bill. Explaining that there MUST be an error on their part. Maybe they could look at the previous owners billing to see if it looks like they under billed for the previous month. I doubt they are trying to screw you. They probably just don't believe you.
2) Are they a regulated Utility? Talk to the regulators.
3) Pay the bill, get a couple of months payment history to document a lower usage, and take it to small claims court. A judge will probably be more understanding and sympathetic.
or
4) Pay the bill, realize that you were careless and are going to have to pay a price for your carelessness. Once!! It sounds like your future bills will be properly in line with you usage.
Best of Luck.
Pat - 02 May 2006 23:48 GMT > 1) You have a high draw appliance that was plugged in > during March that was not in use during April. I know this is impossible.
> 3) you mistakenly used more power than you thought. Also impossible.
> The part that I'm kinda fuzzy on is the work that was done > to turn on your electricity. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > reads the meter.......previous owner pays until the reading, you > pay after the reading. That didn't happen in this case.
> 2) Power is physically disconnected - electricity is shut off at the > pole, and the METER IS REMOVED. Meter was not removed except to replace the box that houses it.
> Best of Luck. I'll need it. Thanks.
Nomen Nescio - 03 May 2006 08:21 GMT -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
From: "Pat" <pdavis@fidnetspam.com>
>Meter was not removed except to replace the box that houses it. OK, This is baffling but I think I might have the answer. It's a long shot, but.........
The needle that reads thousands is loose and has some free play in it. When the meter was read, the needle was almost at the 12 o'clock position. If "0" is at the 12 o'clock, the needle was showing a "9" for the thousands when it should have been showing a "0" . You initial reading may have shown something like x9100 when it should have been x0100. If someone wasn't thinking when they read the meter, they might not have realized that with x9100, the needle should have been closer to the "9" than the "0". Of course, when the needle finally passed the "0" it flopped over clockwise and now looks to be in a (more or less) normal position. If this happened, it would add an extra 1000 KwH to your bill. If you are normally using around 300 KwH, then using 433 KwH in the month that you were moving in and getting settled (and cooling the fridge, heating the water heater, etc.) would not be unreasonable. With the loose needle adding 1000KwH, there's your 1,433KwH. If that isn't it, then I think I'm fresh out of ideas. You might want to DEMAND that they carefully check the meter, which they really should have offered to do when you first brought it to their attention.
Again, best of luck resolving this situation.
Pat - 03 May 2006 15:59 GMT I forwarded your message to our mayor. Thanks so much!
> OK, This is baffling but I think I might have the answer. > It's a long shot, but......... [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > really should have offered to do when you first brought it to their > attention. polonca12000 - 02 May 2006 22:46 GMT > I phoned this morning and got a secretary who has no clue what a kilowatt > hour is. She sent a guy over with a truck and I explained to him that I [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > dryer that she uses regularly, etc. had a much lower bill last month than I > did. It seems like they were estimating the amount of electricity used by the people who lived in the house before you. Hopefully this problem is resolved really soon. Lots of calming purrs and hugs, Polonca and Soncek
MaryL - 07 May 2006 23:55 GMT >I phoned this morning and got a secretary who has no clue what a kilowatt >hour is. She sent a guy over with a truck and I explained to him that I [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > clothes dryer that she uses regularly, etc. had a much lower bill last > month than I did. Yes, I realize that the ones I have would be copies and not originals. On the other hand, I did not realize how large some would be until I read your message.
I still have the abstract (or, more correctly, our copy) from when my parents purchased their home in 1946. Very interesting reading, going back through history and including Indians in Ohio (as you said). We used to find lots of arrowheads at the back of their property -- and that was, unfortunately, at a time when we did not have the respect I would have today for keeping and preserving those artifacts of history.
MaryL
MaryL - 07 May 2006 23:58 GMT <snip>
> I still have the abstract (or, more correctly, our copy) from when my > parents purchased their home in 1946. Very interesting reading, going [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > MaryL Ooops, sorry! I was typing a reply under a different thread and didn't realize that I had clicked on this thread while I was sending the other message.
MaryL
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