Ping Karen / Medical advice: Benefiber and Guar Gum

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Monique Y. Mudama - 19 Apr 2006 05:48 GMT

So, I noticed that the active ingredient in Benefiber is Guar Gum. I
googled and find all sorts of info about how it's been banned from
weight loss supplements.

Why is it not banned as a fiber supplement? Are the amounts involved
much smaller?

What bugs me is this:

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ANSWERS/ANS00386.html

"Diet drug products containing guar gum have caused numerous cases of
esophageal, gastric and intestinal obstruction. Many people
affected required hospitalization, and one eventually died as an
indirect result of esophageal obstruction."

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monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

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Yowie - 19 Apr 2006 12:17 GMT

> So, I noticed that the active ingredient in Benefiber is Guar Gum. I
> googled and find all sorts of info about how it's been banned from
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> affected required hospitalization, and one eventually died as an
> indirect result of esophageal obstruction."

I would be guessing, although by no means an expert, that Guar Gum used fir
a fibre supplement is mixed with a decent quantaty of water and drunk as a
drink. Certainly, Metacil is (although it uses psylocillen). Low chance of
an obstruction, because with the correct amount of water, it form as a soft
gel (very much like those jello products that don't need refridgeration to
be a gel)

As a weight loss supplement, it comes as a pill. The idea of course is that
when the pill is taken, it is taken with a decent amount of water, and that
the pill will dissolve and form a gel inside the stomach, giving the feeling
of being "full" without having any calorific value. Unfortunaly, somepeople
may not take the pill with enough liquid, or may take too many pills, or
indeed, the pill's outer gelatin cover may not dissolve in time and end up
not in the stomach but in the intestines. If it gets to the intestines
before the guar powder sees a significant amount of liquid, it could eaily
absorb *all* the liquid surrounding it, swelling it to the size of the
intestine and then forming a hard, sticky plug. That would certainly cause
problems.

However, as a fibre supplement, because its in a powder form and is taken as
a *drink* rather than a pill, there wouldn't be much problem with it getting
past the stomach, swelling, and then forming a hard sticky plug.

How do I know this? A vegetarian friend wanted to eat jello but didn't want
to eat the gelatine as its an animal product. She had 'diet pills' that
contained guar gum, so I broke the capsules open and used them to set some
flavoured water instead of using gelatine. And if you don't do it right, you
end up with lumps of horrid sticky mess that are really hard to shift.

Yowie

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Monique Y. Mudama - 19 Apr 2006 14:41 GMT

> I would be guessing, although by no means an expert, that Guar Gum
> used fir a fibre supplement is mixed with a decent quantaty of water
> and drunk as a drink. Certainly, Metacil is (although it uses
> psylocillen). Low chance of an obstruction, because with the correct
> amount of water, it form as a soft gel (very much like those jello
> products that don't need refridgeration to be a gel)

That would make sense, except that Benefiber comes in both a powdered
and a pill form. The pill form explicitly advertises that "you don't
need water to use it!" and the powder form says that you can use it in
all sorts of foods. I didn't see any mention of needing to drink
water with either package, although they did give a "not to exceed"
amount per day.

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Karen - 19 Apr 2006 15:28 GMT

Well that is interesting. I hadn't read that at all. Thanks for the info.
Guar Gum is in everything. It does make me wonder how much these people
take. I mean, to me metamucil is scarrier. It makes water *thick*. When I
have mixed up the benefiber, it's not like that. It does seem to be this
specific "Nature's Way" product that is the problem. They say its "OK" for
other use. So how does that work? Sounds to me like something more specific.
If you run into any other info please share. I'll be looking too.

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Monique Y. Mudama - 19 Apr 2006 16:20 GMT

> Well that is interesting. I hadn't read that at all. Thanks for the
> info. Guar Gum is in everything. It does make me wonder how much
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> work? Sounds to me like something more specific. If you run into
> any other info please share. I'll be looking too.

Still nothing specific. I did find this:

http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/1997/597_fiber.html

As near as I can tell, the guidelines for IBS are completely
*opposite* of normal healthy eating. Like eating raw fruits and
veggies, lots of insoluble fiber.

*sigh*

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Karen - 19 Apr 2006 16:55 GMT

> > Well that is interesting. I hadn't read that at all. Thanks for the
> > info. Guar Gum is in everything. It does make me wonder how much
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> *sigh*

I seriously think it's a combo thing, at least for me. I just have to add
back in the soluble kind. I ate plenty of the other. Since I"ve been keeping
it around 19g (mixed soluble/insoluable) a day, I seem to be doing quite
well. But it needs to be a mix. I make sure I have some of the soluble if I
am going to eat any of the insoluble. It's all such a quandry. THen I have
to worry about Pearl's fiber too! That's even harder yet. If she doesn't get
enough, she gets diarrhea. But fiber is carbs. I have ot figure out what hte
best combination there is too. AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!

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Jo Firey - 19 Apr 2006 17:25 GMT

>> > Well that is interesting. I hadn't read that at all. Thanks for the
>> > info. Guar Gum is in everything. It does make me wonder how much
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> hte
> best combination there is too. AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!

I used to have to give the dogs Metamucil. How in heck do you determine the
proper dosage for a five pound dog?

Jo

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Monique Y. Mudama - 19 Apr 2006 23:36 GMT

> I used to have to give the dogs Metamucil. How in heck do you
> determine the proper dosage for a five pound dog?

And you sure don't want to give them too much!

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Howard C. Berkowitz - 20 Apr 2006 00:17 GMT

> > I used to have to give the dogs Metamucil. How in heck do you
> > determine the proper dosage for a five pound dog?
>
> And you sure don't want to give them too much!

Growing up, I had a miniature dachshund, born without testicles so
always at puppy size, who delighted in eating the indigestible. One
day, we came home to find him developing significant aft thrust, while
rolling his eyes like a slot machine after the handle is pulled.

Rushing him to the vet, no one could figure out exactly what was wrong,
but he started to perk up. The next day, we found the jar he had
emptied.

A pound of Vaseline is an excessive self-administered dose for a
four-pound dog.

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Cathi - 20 Apr 2006 06:57 GMT

>Growing up, I had a miniature dachshund, born without testicles so
>always at puppy size, who delighted in eating the indigestible. One
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>A pound of Vaseline is an excessive self-administered dose for a
>four-pound dog.

Reading that, I couldn't help thinking of David Yehudah .... anyone know
how Patty is doing?

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Cathi

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Yowie - 20 Apr 2006 13:06 GMT

>>Growing up, I had a miniature dachshund, born without testicles so
>>always at puppy size, who delighted in eating the indigestible. One
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Reading that, I couldn't help thinking of David Yehudah .... anyone know
> how Patty is doing?

She sent this back in September '05:

Hi Y'all,
Patty here to share the latest news update from yours truly. I am now Mrs.
Miguel Lara. I was married on August 9 at 9:00 p.m. dressed all in black, as
was the groom, and in a helicopter over the Las Vegas strip. This is how the
story began and came to this happy ending:

I asked David to find someone who would love and care for me as he had
through the years. It was the only request I had given him over the years
should he feel the failing of his health, and was the only thing he never
did for me before he passed. I assumed that was the end of it, but boy was I
mistaken!

A year ago last June, David and I were to attend a dance being held at the
stables where I keep Sneakers, my Tennessee Walker. That was the day David
ran his Kawaski 1500 into the side of a car he didn't see coming. Needless
to say, he was too sore to attend the dance that night. I told him not to
worry, we could go next year. I wasn't aware of the time schedule that
someone higher up had planned for him. When I saw the announcement that the
dance would be the evening of June 4th, I decided to attend and visit with
the friends I had made during the past year. (David was there watching over
me and keeping the request I had made.)

Miguel was working as a favor to a friend, providing security for the dance
that night. I did not see him but did meet his partner and friend. However,
Miguel did see me and kept a watchful eye on me the rest of the evening. He
passed behind me several times making trips to the coffee pot but I still
did not see him. Later as I made an escape from a gentleman discussing
politics and religion with me (and something I will not persue due to my
personal religion and views on politics) I came face to face with Miguel in
absolute darkness, we were about one foot apart. I sensed his presences and
spoke to him and he responded back. We talked for a few minutes and
exchanged phone numbers then I returned to the dance. Later after helping
clean up the area after the dance I walked back to the spot I had left him.
He was still there. I asked him if he would like to meet me at a Denny's two
miles down the road for a cup of coffee, because I was not ready to go home
yet. I still did not know what he looked like and he said yes.

I was very pleased with what I saw when I saw him clearly for the first
time. We sat and talked until 6:30 a.m. when he said he had to leave to get
ready to play baseball. BUT HE DID ASK ME TO MARRY HIM BEFORE WE PARTED. I
just gave him a smile and a kiss. I knew my answer but wanted to wait a bit
before giving him my answer. Later that week I gave him my answer YES!

During the following week I loaned him my car while his was being serviced.
He called me some time later and asked me if he was driving David's car and
I told him no it was my car. He responded that there was a strong presence
in the car. I asked if it was a positive or negative feeling and his
response was positive. I then explained that David had picked that car to
keep me safe driving to work every day and that I had asked him to find
someone special for me so that Miguel was the cumulation of all the things
that I had asked for and David approved of him. We are extremely happy and I
have gone from 230 pounds to 165 pounds.

I would like you to share this letter with the group and I will write again
soon.
Patty

And this in January '06:

I would have loved to participate in the card exchange had I gotten the
message sooner, but I have been off line for the last three months and just
got it back today. Would the group be interested in receiving and exchanging
valentine cards this year?

Our mailing address is XXXXXXXXXX, CA [address was in original e-mail]

I am writing only briefly tonight because my horse tossed me over his left
shoulder on Dec. 26, and it took forever for me to reach the ground because
he is so tall(16.3 hands) and I am only 5'3". I broke the same finger for
the third time in 12 months and dislocated the thumb, both on my right hand.
Miguel is roaming about the house mumbling something zbout dog food and glue
factories everytime he sees the braces on the injured areas:0!

When my hand has recovered so typing is not so laborous, I have some new
tales to share with y'all. Please be sure to give any new members the heads
up for the beverage warning because you will need them.

I am so glad to be back. Please pass this to the other members for me.
Love,
Patty

P.S. January 12 will be the first anniversity of David's passing. Take a few
minutes to read your favorite story that he wrote and send him a "well done
dear friend".

She still uses Daves old e-mail addy... I'll pass it on privately if anyone
wants it.

I should write her again.

Yowie

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Adrian A - 20 Apr 2006 13:24 GMT

>>> Growing up, I had a miniature dachshund, born without testicles so
>>> always at puppy size, who delighted in eating the indigestible. One
[quoted text clipped - 112 lines]
>
> Yowie

Thank you so much for posting that, it's good to know Patty's doing so well.
I'd heard she remarried but didn't know the details. I hope she does start
posting here, it would be nice to know how the 'hairy varmit criiters' are
doing.

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Adrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera)
Cats leave pawprints on your heart.
http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk

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Monique Y. Mudama - 21 Apr 2006 04:50 GMT

> A pound of Vaseline is an excessive self-administered dose for a
> four-pound dog.

Probably excessive for creatures of about any size.

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monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

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Monique Y. Mudama - 19 Apr 2006 16:28 GMT

Have you seen this?

http://www.helpforibs.com/shop/suplmts/acacia.asp

The product may or may not be interesting, but it explains in great
detail *why* these soluble gums help IBS. I found it more helpful
than anything I've read so far on the issue.

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pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

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