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Is it good or bad for the new cats to stare at each other silently?

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Karen AKA KajiKit - 17 Feb 2006 14:20 GMT
Scouty and Silver have taken to sitting outside the closed spare room
door and staring at it... they KNOW that Tessie is in there and
they're not sure how they feel about it. They seem to be taking things
a lot more calmly then they did last week (probably because we took
Tessie away to the vet and they stayed home)... When I go into the
craftroom they squeak and meow for me to come out again. I'm not sure
if that's because they don't want me in there or just because they
HATE closed doors...

This morning Tessie was meowing for company and they were staring
towards the craftroom from the other end of the house. I opened the
door and Tessie darted out and she ran right out into the livingroom
where the girls were... Silver was on the coffee table and they stared
at each other, and Scouty was on the floor and THEY stared at each
other, but no hisses were exchanged. Is this a good sign?

This is only the second full day that Tessie has been here since we
brought her home from the vet, so I don't want to rush things or risk
traumatising any of them. But Tessie wants out and Scouty and Silver
want in... how long do we have to keep them seperated?
Adrian - 17 Feb 2006 14:33 GMT
> Scouty and Silver have taken to sitting outside the closed spare room
> door and staring at it... they KNOW that Tessie is in there and
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> traumatising any of them. But Tessie wants out and Scouty and Silver
> want in... how long do we have to keep them seperated?

I think it is a good sign, hopefully you won't need to keep them seperated
for much longer.
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Adrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera)
A House is not a home, without a cat.
http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk

Karen - 17 Feb 2006 15:03 GMT
Yes, that is a really good thing. Excellent!!

> Scouty and Silver have taken to sitting outside the closed spare room
> door and staring at it... they KNOW that Tessie is in there and
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> traumatising any of them. But Tessie wants out and Scouty and Silver
> want in... how long do we have to keep them seperated?
sriddles@aol.com - 17 Feb 2006 15:48 GMT
> Scouty and Silver have taken to sitting outside the closed spare room
> door and staring at it... they KNOW that Tessie is in there and
> they're not sure how they feel about it.

Staring is a good thing. That's the whole purpose of shutting Tessie
up. They're getting a chance to mull this over without a face-to-face
confrontation. If there's a crack under the door big enough for a paw
only, all the better! If not, and if things continue calmly, you can
put a latch (very inexpensive, easy to install) on the door that allows
an inch crack or so.

They seem to be taking things
> a lot more calmly then they did last week (probably because we took
> Tessie away to the vet and they stayed home)... When I go into the
> craftroom they squeak and meow for me to come out again. I'm not sure
> if that's because they don't want me in there or just because they
> HATE closed doors...

They are just curious. That's pretty normal.

> This morning Tessie was meowing for company and they were staring
> towards the craftroom from the other end of the house. I opened the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> traumatising any of them. But Tessie wants out and Scouty and Silver
> want in... how long do we have to keep them seperated?

Karen, I don't want you to take this the wrong way. But I want to read
on this group six months from now that Tessie is a part of your family
and you can't imagine not having her. I don't want to read two weeks
from now that Scouty and Silver refused to accept her and you had to
give her away. She sounds like a great cat! The responsibility for
failure or success is on your shoulders, not Scouty and Silver's. She
can be integrated if you are diligent and patient.
But you seem to be in such a rush. You have mentioned "deadlines"
several times (one week, two weeks, etc.). You just can't put a
deadline on your existing cats like that. Every cat is so different!
Also, if you turn them together too quickly, you'll be set back and it
will really hurt your progress. I think you were just lucky that Scouty
and Silver didn't freak out when Tessie got loose, from what you've
posted about their prior reactions. I think they're going toward
acceptance, but still it's way too soon to turn her out.
Having said all that, I sympathize about the inconvenience. I am very
familiar with it. The spare bedroom starts to stink, because the litter
box is in a small enclosed room. You suddenly have food bowls and a
litterpan in a room that's already being used for something else. You
have to be Houdini to get in there yourself without letting Tessie
out/Scouty and Silver in. And you feel sorry for the poor mite who is
locked up, then feel guilty about spending time in there because your
cats sit at the door voicing their disapproval. Been there!! It's no
picnic. But it sure is worth it, IMO.
Good luck Karen.
Sherry
Marina - 17 Feb 2006 16:48 GMT
> But you seem to be in such a rush. You have mentioned "deadlines"
> several times (one week, two weeks, etc.). You just can't put a
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> posted about their prior reactions. I think they're going toward
> acceptance, but still it's way too soon to turn her out.

OK, having read this, I want to emphasize that I wrote about my own
experiences in the past. It wasn't a recommendation to let Tessie out
too soon.

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Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.
marina (dot) kurten (at) iki (dot) fi
Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
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Karen AKA KajiKit - 17 Feb 2006 17:34 GMT
>> Scouty and Silver have taken to sitting outside the closed spare room
>> door and staring at it... they KNOW that Tessie is in there and
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>from now that Scouty and Silver refused to accept her and you had to
>give her away. She sounds like a great cat! The responsibility for

I didn't LET her out! She RAN out between my legs when I opened the
door to go in to her. And yesterday Scouty snuck in there when John
went in to work on my computer. John and I aren't exactly little
people so that door has to open wide to let us through, and she's a
VERY skinny and agile kitten. If she's next to the door she's going to
have plenty of chance to go through it and there's not much we can do
to stop her.

I'm going to do what was suggested and get a baby-latch for the door
so it can be open a crack - that way the girls can stare in but they
won't be able to GET in because they're much too fat to fit through.

Right now all three cats seem to be extremely happy - I was in the
bedroom watching the X-Files with Scouty and I called Silver in and
she came and then they had a washing/wrestling session and ran off to
play in the livingroom... and Tessie just used the litterbox (and BOY
did it pong!) and she was sitting on the craft table waiting for me to
come and clean it out and now she's kneading on my tummy.

I'm NOT setting any deadline for this! The cats seem to be happy
(especially when John's home, because then there's one of us in here
and one of us 'out there' so nobody's alone) And that's good and I'd
like to keep it that way.  But I haven't done it before and John was
pushing for just letting them have it out since there hasn't been any
overt aggression. When he fostered various kittens he never tried to
seperate them from each other - he couldn't because he was renting a
single room so there was nowhere else for them to go!
sriddles@aol.com - 17 Feb 2006 17:50 GMT
> I didn't LET her out! She RAN out between my legs when I opened the
> door to go in to her. And yesterday Scouty snuck in there when John
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> have plenty of chance to go through it and there's not much we can do
> to stop her.

Nowhere in my post did I suggest that you let her out. Believe me, I
already know how hard it is to keep a cat behind a door while you're
trying yourself to get in.

snipped.

> I'm NOT setting any deadline for this! The cats seem to be happy
> (especially when John's home, because then there's one of us in here
> and one of us 'out there' so nobody's alone)

I'm very glad to hear that.

And that's good and I'd
> like to keep it that way.  But I haven't done it before and John was
> pushing for just letting them have it out since there hasn't been any
> overt aggression. When he fostered various kittens he never tried to
> seperate them from each other - he couldn't because he was renting a
> single room so there was nowhere else for them to go!

Kittens are easy. They're MUCH easier to integrate. There's something
about a kitten that they know how to roll over on their back as if to
say "Don't kill me, look how cute I am." that the older cats just seem
to put up with them better.

Sherry
Chakolate - 17 Feb 2006 19:05 GMT
> The cats seem to be happy
> (especially when John's home, because then there's one of us in here
> and one of us 'out there' so nobody's alone) And that's good and I'd
> like to keep it that way.  But I haven't done it before and John was
> pushing for just letting them have it out since there hasn't been any
> overt aggression.

My NSH opinion, based merely on one cat introduction, is that you should
let them get together, supervised, if they're not hissing at each other
now.  There will be tussles, a little more hissing when one tramples on
the territory of another, then all will be, well, if not calm, at least
under control.  

Chak

Signature

In science, 'fact' can only mean 'confirmed to such a degree that it
would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.' I suppose that apples
might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal
time in physics classrooms.
 --Stephen Jay Gould

Pat - 18 Feb 2006 01:26 GMT
> I didn't LET her out! She RAN out between my legs when I opened the
> door to go in to her. And yesterday Scouty snuck in there when John
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> have plenty of chance to go through it and there's not much we can do
> to stop her.

I suggest carry a broom with you and stick it into the room first - open the
door just enough to get your hand and the broom in, then wiggle the broom at
the kitty so she backs off until you can get in and shut the door.

You might even use another broom in the other hand, to wave at S & S behind
you in case they are trying to go in the room with you.
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) - 18 Feb 2006 02:34 GMT
>>I didn't LET her out! She RAN out between my legs when I opened the
>>door to go in to her. And yesterday Scouty snuck in there when John
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> You might even use another broom in the other hand, to wave at S & S behind
> you in case they are trying to go in the room with you.

I find a squirt-bottle of water easier and more effecive.  I
still have to chase Melly up four flights of stairs to the
roof door, every once in a while when I'm not fast enough,
but it's the only way to keep her inside the apartment when
I come home.  She never did that when Patches was alive, so
I'm hoping, now she has a companion cat again, she'll lose
interest in escaping.  ....Unless she encourages Cendri to
do likewise!  (But Cendri is so shy and so much given to
hiding that I hardly know she's there except at mealtimes -
I don't think she's too likely to want to escape.)
Monique Y. Mudama - 17 Feb 2006 17:58 GMT
> Karen, I don't want you to take this the wrong way. But I want to
> read on this group six months from now that Tessie is a part of your
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> "deadlines" several times (one week, two weeks, etc.). You just
> can't put a deadline on your existing cats like that.

I just want to underline this post.  I made a horrible mistake by
"introducing" Eros and Oscar by plopping Eros on the floor near Oscar.
See, I felt bad that he was being taken from his home, and I didn't
want to lock him away in another room.

Well, it was a disaster.  I ended up with Oscar so terrified that she
wouldn't leave the underside of the bed.  She also has a scar on each
ear to remind me of why cat introductions should be taken slowly.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Marina - 17 Feb 2006 16:44 GMT
> This is only the second full day that Tessie has been here since we
> brought her home from the vet, so I don't want to rush things or risk
> traumatising any of them. But Tessie wants out and Scouty and Silver
> want in... how long do we have to keep them seperated?

YMMV and all that, but I never kept either Miranda or Caliban separated
from the established cats. But if you do let them out together, you have
to be prepared to listen to them sorting themselves out - hissing and
growling. It doesn't do to interfere, unless someone physically attacks
another cat. A lifted paw does not constitute physical attack. This is
how I've always let my cats work out their relations, and they've always
become good friends quite soon, without bloodshed.

Signature

Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.
marina (dot) kurten (at) iki (dot) fi
Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) - 17 Feb 2006 17:33 GMT
>> This is only the second full day that Tessie has been here since we
>> brought her home from the vet, so I don't want to rush things or risk
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> how I've always let my cats work out their relations, and they've always
> become good friends quite soon, without bloodshed.

That's what I've done, too.  I think it speeded things up
that Cendrillon came in heat - it made her CONSIDERABLY more
amenable to the attentions of another cat (even a female),
and Melisande was curious about her strange behaviour.
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) - 17 Feb 2006 17:30 GMT
> Scouty and Silver have taken to sitting outside the closed spare room
> door and staring at it... they KNOW that Tessie is in there and
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> traumatising any of them. But Tessie wants out and Scouty and Silver
> want in... how long do we have to keep them seperated?

It varies with the cats, I think.  Cendrillon and Melisande
no longer growl or "shout" at each other, and the chasing
seems to be play, not attack.  I think cats stare at each
other to communicate telepathically - I know Melly has
persuaded Cendri to sit and wait by the food bowls until she
has finished eating.  They eat from side-by-side bowls, but
if Cendri is eating and Melly shows up, Cendri sort of moves
aside and sits waiting.
Chakolate - 17 Feb 2006 19:07 GMT
> They eat from side-by-side bowls, but
> if Cendri is eating and Melly shows up, Cendri sort of moves
> aside and sits waiting.

That's what Doc does if Pi comes by while he's eating.  He doesn't seem
to mind at all.  

Chak

Signature

In science, 'fact' can only mean 'confirmed to such a degree that it
would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.' I suppose that apples
might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal
time in physics classrooms.
 --Stephen Jay Gould

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) - 18 Feb 2006 02:27 GMT
>>They eat from side-by-side bowls, but
>>if Cendri is eating and Melly shows up, Cendri sort of moves
>>aside and sits waiting.
>
> That's what Doc does if Pi comes by while he's eating.  He doesn't seem
> to mind at all.

Fortunately, Melly never finishes a dish of food, so I don't
have to worry about her eating it all before Cendri gets a
chance at it.  Cendrillon, on the other hand..... She's so
tiny, I don't know where she PUTS it all, but by time for
the next meal, I keep finding both food dishes polished so
clean they really wouldn't need to be washed!  (We ruled out
tapeworm, when she saw the vet for her spay - she just has a
hearty appetite.)

> Chak
Yowie - 18 Feb 2006 10:59 GMT
I did my best to intergrate IBKFergus slowly, but all rooms of the house are
in use, and hte crate had to go back to the lady who lent it to me a week
after I got it, so there were deadlines in our case.

IBKFergus and Shmogg tolerate each other. I think IBKFergus would happily be
friends with Shmogg, but Shmogg is a curmudegeonly old b*st*rd c*t and is
unlikely to change his stance on all these interlopers in his house (Shmogg
only likes two people, himself and me). But after a few horrendous sound but
bloodless cat fights, the pecking order was sorted, and a cease fire reigns
(unless IBKFergus 'tries it on' of course, and is quickly thwapped back into
beta-cat status).

However, IBKFergus gets on fine with everyone else in the house besides me &
Shmogg. She & Fluff have been known t lie down for a nap together, and she
*voluntarily* gets jumps up on the change table every single time Cary has
his diaper changed, and willingly puts herself int he way of toddler who
will do anything to get out of having his diaper put back on. She's had all
her limbs, her tail, and her ears both pulled and sucked on, her fur rubbed
up the wrong way, has been 'patted' with much vigour and enthusiasm and
otherwise toddler-handled and keeps coming back for more. And appreantly,
when Cary and I have gone to bed, and Shmogg is purring me to sleep,
IBKFergus gets onto Joel's lap whilst he's playign World of Warcraft and
purrs her little head off. But she hisses and scratches at me if I get to
close, strange cat. It seems for cats at least, there is a definate
dilineation going on - Shmogg rules me, and IBKFergus is in charge of
anybody who came afterwards.

WEird cats.

Yowie
Enfilade - 18 Feb 2006 22:58 GMT
> > They eat from side-by-side bowls, but
> > if Cendri is eating and Melly shows up, Cendri sort of moves
> > aside and sits waiting.
>
> That's what Doc does if Pi comes by while he's eating.  He doesn't seem
> to mind at all.

Smokey does this with the kittens.  They eat their fill of what's in
the bowl, and he gets what's left.  The kittens are now almost 3 years
old and he still defers to them.

I put down 3 bowls of soft food so he actually gets some, instead of
fat Tyche hoovering it all down.

Nocturne won't eat if anyone else, human or cat, is in the room.
Mustn't watch a lady eat.

--Fil
 
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