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Containment question (long, sorry)

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Chakolate - 08 Feb 2006 04:10 GMT
Hi,

I thought I'd throw this problem out to the group, as you all seem to be
so very clever with your animals.

I live in a second floor apartment, with windows on all sides and an
enclosed back porch.  (If you're familiar with Chicago two-flats, you
know what I mean.)  The apartment gets great cross ventilation if I leave
the back door open, which I feel quite safe in doing.  

The problem comes with Doc.  Doc wants to be an indoor-outdoor cat, and
we have been disagreeing about that since he deigned to grace me with his
presence four and a half years ago.  If the back door (to the apartment,
on the second floor) is open, he manages to get down to the first floor,
and from there often manages to get outside, or gets into the downstairs
apartment, if they've left their window open for ventilation.  Not good.

Last summer I had an old aluminum storm door across the top of the
stairs, but it doesn't really fit the opening.  That is, it fits at the
bottom, and up to about three feet, where the railing is.  But there's a
gap of about five inches from about three feet up to the top of the
stairwell, where the ceiling is about ten feet.  I had covered the
opening with cardboard duct-taped into place, and that held him for a
while.  If he couldn't see over it, to see where he was jumping, he
didn't jump.  

I'm trying to figure out a better solution to the problem.  I thought of
stretching canvas across, but I suspect he might just climb the canvas.  
The guy is fearless.  

It's January in Chicago now, so I'm really not *too* worried about cross-
ventilation right now, but soon I will want to keep the back door open.  
Does anybody have any ideas about how to go about this?  

BTW, I'm a grad student, and therefore broke.  My landlord and the
downstairs neighbor are both quite handy, and I think they will help if I
can come up with something, but spending more than a few bucks on this is
just not possible.  

Help?

Chak

Signature

Too much of philosophy comes across as "Science as it would be practiced
by Lawyers or Politicians".
 --Terry Jones, posted to alt.support.autism

Sandy - 08 Feb 2006 04:28 GMT
I used to have a cat named Doc!  Do people think you're calling him "dog",
like they did with mine?

Sandy
Chakolate - 08 Feb 2006 17:32 GMT
> I used to have a cat named Doc!  Do people think you're calling him
> "dog", like they did with mine?

'Dog' or 'duck'.  More often 'duck'.  

I named him 'Doc' because like ol' Doc Adams on Gunsmoke, he's gray and
grizzled.  He also was forever trying to innoculate me - with his teeth.  

Chak

Signature

Too much of philosophy comes across as "Science as it would be practiced
by Lawyers or Politicians".
 --Terry Jones, posted to alt.support.autism

Sandy - 09 Feb 2006 06:06 GMT
>> I used to have a cat named Doc!  Do people think you're calling him
>> "dog", like they did with mine?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I named him 'Doc' because like ol' Doc Adams on Gunsmoke, he's gray and
> grizzled.  He also was forever trying to innoculate me - with his teeth.

Mine was named after the little boy in The Shining.  ("Doc" was his
nickname.)  I was reading that book when I adopted the cat.

Sandy
Chakolate - 09 Feb 2006 18:10 GMT
"Sandy" <carrieandbishop-2times3@yahoo.com> wrote in news:BZAGf.42686
$dW3.9417@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:

> Mine was named after the little boy in The Shining.  ("Doc" was his
> nickname.)  I was reading that book when I adopted the cat.

Excellent shudders in that book, there were.  :-)

Chak

Signature

In science, 'fact' can only mean 'confirmed to such a degree that it
would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.' I suppose that apples
might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal
time in physics classrooms.
 --Stephen Jay Gould

Victor Martinez - 08 Feb 2006 13:18 GMT
> BTW, I'm a grad student, and therefore broke.  My landlord and the
> downstairs neighbor are both quite handy, and I think they will help if I
> can come up with something, but spending more than a few bucks on this is
> just not possible.  

How much are screen doors? That seems to be the obvious solution. :)

Signature

Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov
Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com

Chakolate - 08 Feb 2006 17:33 GMT
>> BTW, I'm a grad student, and therefore broke.  My landlord and the
>> downstairs neighbor are both quite handy, and I think they will help
>> if I can come up with something, but spending more than a few bucks
>> on this is just not possible.  
>
> How much are screen doors? That seems to be the obvious solution. :)

Maybe I wasn't clear.  A door (I already have a storm door) doesn't fill
the opening.  There's a hand rail, and if I wedge the door into the
opening, he just jumps up to the railing and over.  

Chak

Signature

Too much of philosophy comes across as "Science as it would be practiced
by Lawyers or Politicians".
 --Terry Jones, posted to alt.support.autism

jmcquown - 10 Feb 2006 18:34 GMT
>>> BTW, I'm a grad student, and therefore broke.  My landlord and the
>>> downstairs neighbor are both quite handy, and I think they will help
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Chak

I think Victor meant install a screen door in the doorway.  Open the door
but leave the screen door latched.  Breeze & ventilation without access to
the outside.

Jill
Enfilade - 08 Feb 2006 16:53 GMT
> I'm trying to figure out a better solution to the problem.  I thought of
> stretching canvas across, but I suspect he might just climb the canvas.
> The guy is fearless.

Do you think you could scavenge some chain-link (what you'd use to make
a chain-link fence) or old snow fence (the stuff with wooden slats) or
something similar from a scrap-yard?  If you don't use your back door,
you could nail the stuff up around the whole doorframe.  A screen door
would be more aesthetically pleasing but more expensive too.

--Fil
Chakolate - 08 Feb 2006 17:35 GMT
>> I'm trying to figure out a better solution to the problem.  I thought
>> of stretching canvas across, but I suspect he might just climb the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> screen door would be more aesthetically pleasing but more expensive
> too.

I thought about something like that, then I saw those pictures somebody
else posted (sorry, I can't remember who) that showed her cat climbing
up the chain-link fence.  Doc would definitely be doing that, the minute
I turned my back on him.

Chak

Signature

Too much of philosophy comes across as "Science as it would be practiced
by Lawyers or Politicians".
 --Terry Jones, posted to alt.support.autism

Marina - 08 Feb 2006 20:06 GMT
> I thought about something like that, then I saw those pictures somebody
> else posted (sorry, I can't remember who) that showed her cat climbing
> up the chain-link fence.  Doc would definitely be doing that, the minute
> I turned my back on him.

Do you mean this?
http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/detail?.dir=a592&.dnm=9ec3re2.jpg
&.src=ph


That's why I have a roof on the enlosure ;o) Sorry I can't help you with
your problem. Purrs that you find a good and cheap solution.

Signature

Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.
marina (dot) kurten (at) iki (dot) fi
Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Chakolate - 08 Feb 2006 20:48 GMT
>> I thought about something like that, then I saw those pictures
>> somebody else posted (sorry, I can't remember who) that showed her
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> That's why I have a roof on the enlosure ;o) Sorry I can't help you
> with your problem. Purrs that you find a good and cheap solution.

Yup, that's the one.  I was originally considering canvas or burlap to go
across the opening, but after seeing that picture, I realized he wouldn't
consider that a 'barrier', he would consider it a 'ladder'.  :-/

Chak

Signature

In science, 'fact' can only mean 'confirmed to such a degree that it
would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.' I suppose that apples
might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal
time in physics classrooms.
 --Stephen Jay Gould

Enfilade - 09 Feb 2006 00:36 GMT
> > Do you think you could scavenge some chain-link (what you'd use to
> > make a chain-link fence) or old snow fence (the stuff with wooden
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Chak

The idea is not to put up a chain link fence, but to put the
chain-links over the /entire door area/.  That way, it wouldn't matter
if he climbed up the chain-links, because when the links ended, the
wall over the door would begin.

Imagine the rectangular door opening, with chainlink over the entire
thing.

--Fil
Chakolate - 09 Feb 2006 05:56 GMT
> The idea is not to put up a chain link fence, but to put the
> chain-links over the /entire door area/.  That way, it wouldn't matter
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Imagine the rectangular door opening, with chainlink over the entire
> thing.

But I still have to be able to get out from time to time.  It's a fire
hazard to have only one entrance to a domicile, and against the regs
here.  

Chak

Signature

In science, 'fact' can only mean 'confirmed to such a degree that it
would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.' I suppose that apples
might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal
time in physics classrooms.
 --Stephen Jay Gould

Enfilade - 09 Feb 2006 15:41 GMT
> But I still have to be able to get out from time to time.  It's a fire
> hazard to have only one entrance to a domicile, and against the regs
> here.

How unusual.  I've never lived in an apartment that had more than one
entrance/exit door (though I do have a chain-ladder if I ever need to
go out a window).

Still, I will admit it wouldn't work if you ever planned to use that
door and going against your building code is certainly a bad idea.

I suppose a screen door, or a removable frame that fits inside the
doorway space, is your best bet then.

--Fil
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) - 10 Feb 2006 03:24 GMT
>>But I still have to be able to get out from time to time.  It's a fire
>>hazard to have only one entrance to a domicile, and against the regs
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> entrance/exit door (though I do have a chain-ladder if I ever need to
> go out a window).

That's true here, too - at least individual apartments in a
building.  The BUILDING must have more than one exit, but
not the individual apartments.

> Still, I will admit it wouldn't work if you ever planned to use that
> door and going against your building code is certainly a bad idea.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> --Fil
Chakolate - 10 Feb 2006 06:11 GMT
> That's true here, too - at least individual apartments in a
> building.  The BUILDING must have more than one exit, but
> not the individual apartments.

Not even a fire escape?  

Chak

Signature

In science, 'fact' can only mean 'confirmed to such a degree that it
would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.' I suppose that apples
might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal
time in physics classrooms.
 --Stephen Jay Gould

Cheryl Perkins - 10 Feb 2006 11:56 GMT
>> That's true here, too - at least individual apartments in a
>> building.  The BUILDING must have more than one exit, but
>> not the individual apartments.

> Not even a fire escape?  

I don't think I've ever been in an apartment with more than one exit from
the apartment itself, although the building normally has two or more exits
from each floor. No, not even a fire escape from the apartment itself,
unless you want to jump off the balcony.

Signature

Cheryl

Enfilade - 10 Feb 2006 17:22 GMT
> > Not even a fire escape?
>
> I don't think I've ever been in an apartment with more than one exit from
> the apartment itself, although the building normally has two or more exits
> from each floor. No, not even a fire escape from the apartment itself,
> unless you want to jump off the balcony.

Exactly.  Fire escapes tend to be put on rooming houses that have only
one exit--thereby making two exits:  through the house, or out the fire
escape.

My apartment complex, 144 units, has 4 exits: one on each end of the
building, plus a third stairwell down the middle through which you can
pick either the main lobby (door 3) or the back loading dock (door 4).

But this presumes that we would be able to get out into our hallway to
pick which of the 4 doors to get out by; if there was a fire in front
of our apartment door, we would be trapped inside.  The theory, though,
is that the thick walls would keep fire at bay until firefighters could
take us off our balcony.

Now, we chose to go out and purchase that chain ladder so we could
climb out the window and down to safety; but that was neither provided
for us nor advised to us.  

--Fil
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) - 08 Feb 2006 16:59 GMT
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
> Help?

Would a screen door be possible?  Or window screen nailed to
a solid frame?
Chakolate - 08 Feb 2006 17:37 GMT
> Would a screen door be possible?  Or window screen nailed to
> a solid frame?

It's the shape of the opening that's problematic.  At the bottom, it's 40
inches wide, but above the handrail the opening is 46 inches wide.  

Sorry if I didn't make that clear in the original post.  

Chak

Signature

Too much of philosophy comes across as "Science as it would be practiced
by Lawyers or Politicians".
 --Terry Jones, posted to alt.support.autism

Dan M - 08 Feb 2006 17:37 GMT
Not sure if this would work for you, but could you build a frame of 1x2's,
the width and depth of your back porch, and staple chicken wire to it?
That would give you an enclosed back porch that kitties would be safe on
and that wouldn't impede your ventilation.
Chakolate - 08 Feb 2006 19:15 GMT
> Not sure if this would work for you, but could you build a frame of
> 1x2's, the width and depth of your back porch, and staple chicken wire
> to it? That would give you an enclosed back porch that kitties would
> be safe on and that wouldn't impede your ventilation.

Maybe I can muck together something like that.  It'll have to go up to
the ceiling, though, because Doc is The Ultimate Climber.

Chak

Signature

In science, 'fact' can only mean 'confirmed to such a degree that it
would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.' I suppose that apples
might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal
time in physics classrooms.
 --Stephen Jay Gould

Dan M - 08 Feb 2006 19:21 GMT
> Maybe I can muck together something like that.  It'll have to go up to
> the ceiling, though, because Doc is The Ultimate Climber.
>
> Chak

That's kind of what I was thinking. Kind of like a lower-tech version of
what Marina has, with 3 walls (and maybe a roof if needed). And if that
bright silvery chicken wire would be too much of an eyesore, around here
the big home improvement stores sell a pretty heavy-duty plastic mesh that
look like plastic chicken wire. It's black, and when I've used it it's
stood up pretty well.
Shirley - 08 Feb 2006 22:39 GMT
>> Not sure if this would work for you, but could you build a frame of
>> 1x2's, the width and depth of your back porch, and staple chicken
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Chak

We made a wooden frame to fit inside the door frame covered it with
chicken wire, put hinges on so it would open inwards and hook and eye
catches  to hold it closed (this works for sliding doors). For doors
that open inwards you could attach small sliding bolts (will need to
drill holes in the door frame for the bolt to slide into) to the
'screen', one on each side should be enough.

Just thought ...will your landlord allow you to make minor
modifications to the property?

Signature

Shirley
http://community.webshots.com/user/shirleycatuk

Chakolate - 09 Feb 2006 05:54 GMT
"Shirley" <s.holland2@NOSPAMntlworld.com> wrote in news:ZtuGf.85010
$zt1.62699@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net:

> We made a wooden frame to fit inside the door frame covered it with
> chicken wire, put hinges on so it would open inwards and hook and eye
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Just thought ...will your landlord allow you to make minor
> modifications to the property?

I think he might even help me with it.  A wooden frame with some sort of
cover is just what I think I'll have to have.  

Thanks.  

Chak

Signature

In science, 'fact' can only mean 'confirmed to such a degree that it
would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.' I suppose that apples
might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal
time in physics classrooms.
 --Stephen Jay Gould


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