Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / January 2006
Dilema...
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Helen Miles - 20 Jan 2006 20:40 GMT I'm considering applying to the RSPCA to become an Inspector. However, I have a moral dilema. The RSPCA does good work. However, having done my research, it is also a very contraversial organisation in that it will euthanaise healthy animals for lack of homes, (70,000+ last year) and there have been situations where peoples pets have been euthaniased by mistake because of RSPCA policies that are in place, as well as seizures taking place in unwaranted circumstances.
One of the comments that was made to me by an inspector who I used to ride my horse with, was that after a while the animals euthanised become just numbers and you detatch from them and they cease being anything other than statistics. I know I *CAN* euthanaise animals - I've had to on several occasions, but they have always been animals that were suffering from incurable medical problems and not healthy animals.
I don't agree with the RSPCA feral cat policies (trap and euthanaisia), and would find it exceptionally difficult to destroy a perfectly healthy animal - I would go as far as to say it's against my spiritual and moral beliefs. However, you also act as an animal advocate, and get to do a lot of good - rescue of cruelty victims and the like.
I don't know how I feel about the job at the moment. I really don't. i know that during training you are required to slaughter cattle & to euthanaise healthy cats & dogs to prove you can do it and are *up to the task*. Killing cattle and live stock, I can deal with. Pet animals are a whole different ball game.
On one hand, I want to get involved with the whole *get animals out of bad situations*, and I'd be very good at it because I have a lot of the esential skills required for the job. On the other hand, I've never heard a good word said about the RSPCA and their euthanaisia/destruction policy is a toughy.
The floor is open. I'd welcome some discussion on this, as I really an torn. As i said, I've not made up my mind one way or the other.
Helen M
Yoj - 20 Jan 2006 20:50 GMT > I'm considering applying to the RSPCA to become an Inspector. However, I > have a moral dilema. The RSPCA does good work. However, having done my [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Helen M I can understand your problem. I don't have any advice to offer. I don't think I could do it, but I understand why you are considering it. I wish you the best, whatever you decide.
Joy
NMR - 20 Jan 2006 20:51 GMT Helen this is going to be the hardest choice you every can make. On the one hand you can do good by getting those animals abusers off the street. On the other hand you have to watch the one of the nasty secrets of societies come true daily. I could not stand by and watch healthy animals be put down for lack of space when I know there is a chance for them to surivive if society just get off its lazy good for nothing a.s and cough up money to help.
The good verse the evil which might be done with good intentions. Helen if you take this job you better be ready for an emotional roller coaster. This job will tear you up and spit you out if you are not ready and I am not talking about your skills. It will effect you and your family. If you make it in this job I will say you are stronger than me and I hope you do well in it.
Monique Y. Mudama - 20 Jan 2006 20:51 GMT > I don't know how I feel about the job at the moment. I really don't. > i know that during training you are required to slaughter cattle & > to euthanaise healthy cats & dogs to prove you can do it and are *up > to the task*. Killing cattle and live stock, I can deal with. Pet > animals are a whole different ball game. I find this part disturbing. Isn't the pet overpopulation problem not nearly as bad in the UK as in the US? Does this mean that they're purposely keeping healthy pets available just so their trainees can euthanize them?
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
Helen Miles - 20 Jan 2006 21:24 GMT > I find this part disturbing. Isn't the pet overpopulation problem not > nearly as bad in the UK as in the US? Does this mean that they're > purposely keeping healthy pets available just so their trainees can > euthanize them? Unlike the National Canine Defence League and Cats Protection who never destroy a healthy animal, The RSPCA is NOT a no-kill organisation. They routinely euthanaise companion animals. The trainees have to euthanaise those that are on "death row" and who are being pulled because their time is up.
Helen M
Christina Websell - 20 Jan 2006 21:48 GMT >> I find this part disturbing. Isn't the pet overpopulation problem not >> nearly as bad in the UK as in the US? Does this mean that they're [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Helen M Which used to be 7 days, but I might be a bit out of touch with their policies now. My aunt's elderly dog went missing from their garden, having just gone out for a wee. They spent days and nights searching the streets for her as she was very beloved. They rang the police, all the private dog rescue organisations and the RSPCA daily. She was a very distinctive dog as she had just undergone an operation and had a wound that wasn't healing well and was undergoing vet treatment. No. she hadn't been found anywhere. Until they decided to go along to the RSPCA kennels anyway and have a look, and yes, there she was, she'd been there all along, been there 6 days and was one day away from destruction. Bah. That's just one thing I could tell you.
Tweed
Helen Miles - 20 Jan 2006 22:06 GMT > No. she hadn't been found anywhere. Until they decided to go along to the > RSPCA kennels anyway and have a look, and yes, there she was, she'd been > there all along, been there 6 days and was one day away from destruction. > Bah. That's just one thing I could tell you./// Well that's just it. I know of several stories similar to that one and some far worse, and I've had a run-in with the RSPCA myself when HRFL was a baby over the state of his eyes (he was under a veterinary opthalmic specialist at the Animal Health Trust at the time!).
I guess that I'm glad i did some proper research and some serious digging on the organisation before agreeing to sell my soul to the devil!
Helen M
Helen Miles - 20 Jan 2006 21:24 GMT > I find this part disturbing. Isn't the pet overpopulation problem not > nearly as bad in the UK as in the US? Does this mean that they're > purposely keeping healthy pets available just so their trainees can > euthanize them? Unlike the National Canine Defence League and Cats Protection who never destroy a healthy animal, The RSPCA is NOT a no-kill organisation. They routinely euthanaise companion animals. The trainees have to euthanaise those that are on "death row" and who are being pulled because their time is up.
Helen M
sriddles@aol.com - 20 Jan 2006 21:25 GMT > I'm considering applying to the RSPCA to become an Inspector. However, I > have a moral dilema. The RSPCA does good work. However, having done my [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Helen M Helen, I think there is absolutely no question that you would be a wonderful, valuable asset to the organization. I've read your posts for years and I know you to be a highly compassionate person who has a brain. You're perfect for the job. But I don't know whether the organization would be good for *you*. I guess you're the only one who can find out. Purrs for the right decision for you. I volunteer with an organization that I truly believe in and support their policies. And I found that I can only work day-to-day for four months at a stretch. Then I get crazy and have nightmares and have to slack off and just do fundraising kind of stuff. I also thought I was going to help with euthanasia in the very beginning. That didn't work. I couldn't do it.
Sherry
Christina Websell - 20 Jan 2006 21:29 GMT > I'm considering applying to the RSPCA to become an Inspector. However, I > have a moral dilema. The RSPCA does good work. However, having done my [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Helen M Personally, I would not even consider it. I have no time at all for the RSPCA, would never give them even a penny of my money and would be happy to discuss it with you on private mail. You've said half of it already. Hey, that's such a good idea to get you to kill some healthy animals, eh, and somehow that makes you able to be.. what? Kind and caring like the RPCA. <snort>
Tweed
Helen Miles - 20 Jan 2006 21:32 GMT > I'm considering applying to the RSPCA to become an Inspector. However, I > have a moral dilema. The RSPCA does good work. However, having done my [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > mistake because of RSPCA policies that are in place, as well as seizures > taking place in unwaranted circumstances./// Thanks to everyone for the input. I had a very long conversation with someone who knows me very well, and isn't afraid to "say it how it is". Having talked it through with her, I don't honestly beleive that I'd be able to look at myself in the mirror and believe I was doing a good thing for animals by working for the RSPCA. I'm going to stick an organisation that has the same values on the lives as animals as I do and find another job. Thanks for helping to clarify things folks.
At the risk of sounding flaky, I think that if I did 1/2 the stuff that I've been told I'd have to do in training, I will quite simply have sold my soul to the devil.
Helen M
Christina Websell - 20 Jan 2006 21:52 GMT >> I'm considering applying to the RSPCA to become an Inspector. However, I >> have a moral dilema. The RSPCA does good work. However, having done my [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Helen M Thank god for that.
Tweed
Monique Y. Mudama - 20 Jan 2006 22:22 GMT > At the risk of sounding flaky, I think that if I did 1/2 the stuff > that I've been told I'd have to do in training, I will quite simply > have sold my soul to the devil. That doesn't sound flaky to me.
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
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Enfilade - 21 Jan 2006 02:51 GMT > > At the risk of sounding flaky, I think that if I did 1/2 the stuff > > that I've been told I'd have to do in training, I will quite simply > > have sold my soul to the devil. > > That doesn't sound flaky to me. No. You cannot do well at a job where you feel that what you are being asked to do is ethically wrong.
I had problems working in a store for older women where I was informed that it was part of my job to tempt them to spend their pension cheques on clothes they didn't need...that I was to do whatever it took to convince them to buy everything now, and "not to hang onto the money until after they'd paid the rent and bought their food for the week." Why did I feel good when I failed and a lady went for food before she came back to buy what clothes she could afford with what was left over, even though I was getting punished for not meeting sales quotas? Why did I feel bad when I scored a big sale out of someone I knew couldn't really afford what she bought?
There are very few things worth the price of your soul (war, or the lives of your children, sometimes being worth it.)
--Fil
Jo Firey - 21 Jan 2006 03:08 GMT >> > At the risk of sounding flaky, I think that if I did 1/2 the stuff >> > that I've been told I'd have to do in training, I will quite simply [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > --Fil While I totally agree with Helen's decision, I don't find putting down healthy animals ethically wrong.
There are times in real life that once a wrong turn is taken on the wrong/right anything that follows is going to be less than optimal. Where the only choices left are between wrong and not so wrong.
In the real world there are not enough resources to provide a home for every cat and dog that is born.
Once everything possible has been done to care for and find suitable homes there will still be healthy animals left. A lot of them. And more are being born every minute. Should they be caged and fed and left to live out their lives in some sort of prison?
So while there are a lot of things I might not be able to bring myself to do, I try not to demonize anyone whose lot and choice is to do them.
So I know this is preaching to the choir, but spay and neuter your pets!
Jo
Helen Miles - 21 Jan 2006 10:36 GMT > While I totally agree with Helen's decision, I don't find putting down > healthy animals ethically wrong.///// I have done it once - in Belize when I humanely destroyed a stray dog who was very timid, but agressive and came onto the property. The risk of rabies was too great because of the area I was in, to try and tame the dog. I've also personally euthanaised 3 medically ill animals, one of whom was put to sleep because his owners couldn't afford to pay his bills, and I have given permission for a couple of others to be PTS, including my own pet cat. I can recall ALL of the animals that I had a hand in sending to Rainbow Bridge, and in all cases I feel like a lost a little bit of my soul. Whilst I see the argument for humane distruction of unwanted pets, I know categorically that I could never play a part in it.
I do find it ethically wrong, however admittedly in an argument, I couldn't give you a viable option apart from spay/neuter of pets.
> There are times in real life that once a wrong turn is taken on the > wrong/right anything that follows is going to be less than optimal. Where > the only choices left are between wrong and not so wrong. Just because it's "Not-so-wrong" it doesn't make it RIGHT. <snippage of an argument I can't counter>
> So while there are a lot of things I might not be able to bring myself to > do, I try not to demonize anyone whose lot and choice is to do them./// I am not deamonising the people who do it, I'm jsut saying that I find it ethically and morally wrong and I wouldn't be prepared to do it.
Helen M
Exocat - 21 Jan 2006 09:35 GMT >> > At the risk of sounding flaky, I think that if I did 1/2 the stuff >> > that I've been told I'd have to do in training, I will quite simply >> > have sold my soul to the devil.
> No. You cannot do well at a job where you feel that what you are > being > asked to do is ethically wrong. Sorry to piggyback here, but I agree 100% with Enfilade on this one, Helen!
I volunteer/fundraise with Cats Protection and will have nothing to do with the RSPCA. In your position I'd try to get paid work with CP or similar with Ethical & Humane policies and spend as much time as possible exposing the RSPCA's barbarities to the outside world, thus hoping to attract publicity & divert funding..............etc. etc.
My tuppence worth.
Cheers & Good Luck Gordon
Helen Miles - 21 Jan 2006 10:27 GMT > I volunteer/fundraise with Cats Protection and will have nothing to do > with the RSPCA. In your position I'd try to get paid work with CP or > similar with Ethical & Humane policies and spend as much time as > possible exposing the RSPCA's barbarities to the outside world, thus > hoping to attract publicity & divert funding..............etc. etc./// Cats Protection was the charity that I was refering to when I said that I'd be staying with a charity that agreed with my views. I don't *NEED* to work in animal welfare as a paid job, although I'd like to. I have many other irons in the fire, all of which I feel would suit me better. However I thought I'd explore the option with the RSPCA as it seemed like a good one - until I did proper research. :o(
The debacle over Lily should have given me the heads up. When she was brought to the attention of the RSPCA by the vet as a cruelty case (although found by Cats Proection), the RSPCA agreed to spend £50 on her care. She was then collected by the RSPCA from the vet as they had *paid* for her (even though she belonged to CP). Cardiff Cats Protection went nuts, and eventually caught up with the inspector who had collected her. She was handed back over to Cats Protection in a B&Q carpark by the RSPCA after CP had threatened them with court action for theft because all her paperwork stated she belonged to CP. Bizare, huh? The story doesn't end there. When the CP advocate asked what was going to happen to her, she was told that because her treatment would be so expensive, she would probably be humanely destroyed and the treatment she had had from the vet would have only alliviated suffering...
Needless to say, CP spent considerably more than £50 on Lily to fix her up.
In hindsight should really have stopped thinking about a career with the RSPCA at that point. ;o)
Helen M
Jeanette - 21 Jan 2006 23:06 GMT > > I volunteer/fundraise with Cats Protection and will have nothing to do > > with the RSPCA. In your position I'd try to get paid work with CP or [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Helen M You're not the only one with a one eyed cat thanks to CP :-) My Cav was already on the Preston Branch waiting list to come into our care, when he was hit by a car. Our co-ordinator didn't even blink when the guy who was feeding him rang to say that McCavity was seriously injured, she said he was going to be a CP cat, and we'd foot the bill. The guy was a true gem, and cared for Cav after surgery (Cav had been his late mother's cat). When Cav eventually came into care, he was with us for several weeks until Ade saw him and fell for him. If he'd been with the RSPCA, he may have been killed.
Of course, I have a particularly bitterness against the RSPCA after I willingly spent hours and hours of my time telling them how we ran our mobile cat neutering unit (the UK's first), only to see them on Animal Hospital showing off THEIR unit a year later, and claiming that THAT was the UKs first mobile neutering unit. I asked for an apology, and made a huge stink at the time, it was grossly unfair to our volunteers. I never did get the apology, and the BBC repeated that show many times without a correction.
Jeanette
wafflycat - 20 Jan 2006 22:49 GMT > At the risk of sounding flaky, I think that if I did 1/2 the stuff that > I've been told I'd have to do in training, I will quite simply have sold > my soul to the devil. > > Helen M I htik you made the correct decision. There is the argument that you can try to change the organisation form the inside, but an inspector won't have the clout to do it. On the other hand.... working undercover to expose the bad side... but that's a whole different ball game.
Another thought. How about working with a vet that has links to animal shelters? Would that be a starter?
Cheers, helen s
kilikini - 21 Jan 2006 10:21 GMT > > I'm considering applying to the RSPCA to become an Inspector. However, I > > have a moral dilema. The RSPCA does good work. However, having done my [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Helen M I'm glad that you made a decision, Helen. I don't think I could work there, either.
kili
Steve Touchstone - 21 Jan 2006 13:12 GMT >Thanks to everyone for the input. I had a very long conversation with >someone who knows me very well, and isn't afraid to "say it how it is". [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I've been told I'd have to do in training, I will quite simply have sold >my soul to the devil. Well, I didn't read the OP in time to offer advice, but I agree with your decision. Since I've been reading this group I've had 4 cats - two strays - Spotty and Little Bit, Rocky - feral who, after a long time, decided to adopt me, and Sammy, Little Bit's daughter who was born in the closet while I was looking for LB's previous owners. With the exception of Sammy, all might have been PTS by the RSPCA, and since LB was a skinny pregnant cat no one wanted when I let her inside, and Sammy might never have been born. No matter how much good the organization does in other ways, I could never put myself in the postion where I would be required to PTS healthy animals who have made me such loved companions.
 Signature Steve Touchstone, faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Spot with loving memories of Rocky (RB)
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Jeanette - 21 Jan 2006 22:57 GMT > > I'm considering applying to the RSPCA to become an Inspector. However, I > > have a moral dilema. The RSPCA does good work. However, having done my [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Helen M I think you've made the right decision Helen.
Love
Jeanette
CatNipped - 20 Jan 2006 21:40 GMT > I'm considering applying to the RSPCA to become an Inspector. However, I > have a moral dilema. The RSPCA does good work. However, having done my [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Helen M Helen, I think organizations like this are necessary, and I'm *very* glad that there are people who can do this - if it weren't for them the overpopulation of companion animals would cause horrible consequences for them. However, I don't think it's a good idea for you. I think it would break your heart and be deeply disturbing for you. You *might* get to a point where you could euthanize a healthy animal and still sleep at night, but I don't think you'd *want* to get to that point (or at least I wouldn't - I would feel I had lost something, some part of my soul that I couldn't get back again).
 Signature Hugs,
CatNipped
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Steve Touchstone - 21 Jan 2006 13:12 GMT >Helen, I think organizations like this are necessary, and I'm *very* glad >that there are people who can do this - if it weren't for them the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >wouldn't - I would feel I had lost something, some part of my soul that I >couldn't get back again). ditto - as much as it pains me to say so, these organizations, and the people who work there, are needed. But, as I said in my earlier post, I could never work for such an organization. That doesn't mean I'm condemning someone who does this work, just that I couldn't do it myself.
 Signature Steve Touchstone, faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Spot with loving memories of Rocky (RB)
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Adrian - 20 Jan 2006 22:47 GMT > I'm considering applying to the RSPCA to become an Inspector. > However, I have a moral dilema. The RSPCA does good work. However, [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Helen M All I can say is, I'd hate to be put in a position where I was forced to kill a healthy animal. I've heard the hooror stories as well, personally I couldn't be part of it, maybe though, you could make a difference.
 Signature Adrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera) A House is not a home, without a cat. http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk
mlabofski@yahoo.co.uk - 21 Jan 2006 15:20 GMT A couple of things (well more actually) wind me up about the RSPCA. A friend of mine has just paid £65 for a cat from them, they wanted £85 for a kitten. I can see the logic of that in some ways, and they've done a home check etc so I suppose they have to meet their overheads (although they have a MASSIVE bank account by all accounts), but I don't think they should charge so much to adopt an animal, £65 is a lot of money for people on low income that could still give an animal a good home. Another thing that annoys me is the "Royal" part of it, when the Royals are hardly advocates for preventing "cruelty to animals" when they are part of the hunting fraternity. The RS refuse to come out against hunting because they get so much money for having the "R" at the start of their name.
At the end of the day, the people that work there are mostly fine, but the organisation itself is just like any other big corporation, their main objective is to make money and NOT animal welfare.
People should be made more aware in this country not to take abandoned or stray animals to the RS, they get more than any other rescue centre because they are so well known (cheers Rolf!) - but they have more money to advertise than a no-kill shelter. A friend of mine took a cat to see a vet there and didn't realise how much money they would charge, not much less than a private vet.
I took Otis to the Blue Cross when I was unemployed and they were amazing, I actually preferred them to my private vet but can't go there anymore as I'm working, and I think it would be morally wrong for me to do so. They were so caring, and didn't do unneccessary procedures for cash, but looked after him - even when they thought he was a goner after falling off a 2nd floor balcony (some 14 years ago), they operated on him (and neutered him for free while he was under the knife) and nursed him back to health, even allowing me in every evening to hand feed him as he was refusing food from them. And they work on a "give whatever you can afford" basis but still manage to give excellent care.
Rant over
Marcia
Victor Martinez - 21 Jan 2006 22:40 GMT > know that during training you are required to slaughter cattle & to > euthanaise healthy cats & dogs to prove you can do it and are *up to the > task*. Killing cattle and live stock, I can deal with. Pet animals are a > whole different ball game. Why on earth would you be required to prove you can euthanize animals if that's not going to be your job? That's silly. I would certainly refuse to do so.
 Signature Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com
Christina Websell - 21 Jan 2006 23:04 GMT >> know that during training you are required to slaughter cattle & to >> euthanaise healthy cats & dogs to prove you can do it and are *up to the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > that's not going to be your job? That's silly. I would certainly refuse to > do so. But it *would* be her job. I would like to get one thing clear. The RSPCA present themselves as animal police, give themselves a high profile and rake money in from donations. They are a charity, and have no more right to prosecute than I have except via a private prosecution which is open to anyone. They have no right at all to enter your property and decide whether you are looking after your animals properly. You are perfectly at liberty to tell them to "remove themselves.." I would recommend it, I have no time for them at all. Various reasons, all bad experiences with them.
Tweed
Helen Miles - 22 Jan 2006 01:49 GMT > Why on earth would you be required to prove you can euthanize animals if > that's not going to be your job? That's silly. I would certainly refuse > to do so./// They make it very, very clear in the job application documents that euthanaisia of companion animals is a job requirement. So much so that there are several questions on the preliminary application form about your ethics and views on the subject
Infact, in 3 pages of job description it was mentioned at least 4 times.
:o( I also know that the RSPCA routinely destroy feral and timid pet cats without even giving them a chance to be socialised. :o(
Helen M
Victor Martinez - 22 Jan 2006 05:56 GMT > I also know that the RSPCA routinely destroy feral and timid pet cats > without even giving them a chance to be socialised. :o( That's just wrong. Here in the US, I give money to Alley Cat Allies, which sponsors trap-neuter-and-release programs. Our local SPCA is a no-kill shelter and the City of Austin was supposed to go no-kill by 2000, but that didn't happen. Too many idiots breeding their dogs and cats. :(
 Signature Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com
Christina Websell - 25 Jan 2006 15:38 GMT > I also know that the RSPCA routinely destroy feral and timid pet cats > without even giving them a chance to be socialised. :o( Yes, they do. Which is rather stupid of them as if I had a vacancy this is just the sort of cat I would be seeking to adopt as the facilities here for timid or feral cats are very suitable for them. It's very quiet, almost no traffic, there are acres of gardens and fields to roam in, and sheds to sleep in should they be too nervous to come into the house.
The more I learn about the RSPCA the less I like them. They will never get a penny of my money.
Tweed
Adrian - 25 Jan 2006 17:35 GMT >> I also know that the RSPCA routinely destroy feral and timid pet cats >> without even giving them a chance to be socialised. :o( [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Tweed Your home sounds delightful. :-) BTW I forgot to tell you, I thought your christmas card was to nice to put away, so I've framed it and it's on the wall by my desk.
 Signature Adrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera) A House is not a home, without a cat. http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk
Christina Websell - 25 Jan 2006 18:24 GMT >>> I also know that the RSPCA routinely destroy feral and timid pet cats >>> without even giving them a chance to be socialised. :o( [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Your home sounds delightful. :-) They aren't all *my* acres, I only have a quarter of one, but so do all the neighbours and we back on to fields that go for about a mile before there's a road.
> BTW I forgot to tell you, I thought your > christmas card was to nice to put away, so I've framed it and it's on the > wall by my desk. Aww, thanks for telling me. I'm glad you liked it.
Tweed
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