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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / January 2006Kitten vs Racoon
My 6 month old named Donny had a confrontation with a racoon. He was outside and I was inside sleeping when he made the most unbelievable screaming noise. I was quite surprised he could make such a sound and I went right out to see what's up and saw the racoon running away. By the time I got my gun I was unable to get a good shot. The coons come up to the house hoping for garbage. I'm guessing it must have come up on my Donny by accident. What chance do you think there is for my kitten in a fight with a racoon? I also have skunks approach my house somtimes. I'm thinking that any reasonable skunk or coon would avoid a fight but if the animal is sick they can do anything. I live in northern Minnesota and we have a variety of predators as well including wolf, coyote, feral dogs and cat as well as eagle and owls. How much should I worry? Here are some cool pics of my beautiful friends when they were just babies. http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=9040654&uid=4297243 > My 6 month old named Donny had a confrontation with a racoon. He was > outside and I was inside sleeping when he made the most unbelievable [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > babies. > http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=9040654&uid=4297243 May I ask, if there are wolves, coyotes, feral dogs, eagles and owls (as well as possibly rabid raccoons and skunks) where you live, why are you allowing your cats to go outside and face these dangers?  SignatureHugs, CatNipped See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ > My 6 month old named Donny had a confrontation with a racoon. He was > outside and I was inside sleeping when he made the most unbelievable [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > babies. > http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=9040654&uid=4297243 Was the kitten injured?? >My 6 month old named Donny had a confrontation with a racoon. He was >outside and I was inside sleeping when he made the most unbelievable [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >babies. > http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=9040654&uid=4297243 If I lived in an area known to have predators capable of catching and consuming one or both of your beloved kitties, I'd sure as h*ll keep them indoors 24/7! Wolves, eagles, owls, and coyotes, not to mention wild dogs, are all efficient cat killers! > My 6 month old named Donny had a confrontation with a racoon. He was > outside and I was inside sleeping when he made the most unbelievable [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=9040654&uid=4297243 You should worry a lot, and all the time. However, you wouldn't have to worry if you kept your cats indoors. SignatureBritta "There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast." -- Unknown Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album > My 6 month old named Donny had a confrontation with a racoon. He sounds a bit young to be outdoors, especially if there are raccoons in the area (not to mention coyotes, wolves, birds of prey...). Maybe the kitty needs to be kept indoors. And was this at night? That's when I would assume the raccoons would be foraging through your garbage. That's also when a lot of other predators are out hunting, so at the very least, he should be kept inside at night. But eagles hunt during the day, so even the daytime doesn't sound very safe. Joyce Hello to all, "why are you allowing your cats to go outside and face these dangers? " I try to keep them inside but it is difficult. When I go in or out, I usually have my hands full with either my dogs or something else. They stake out the door and then when I open it they charge the opening full speed. They have become so stealthy that I sometimes don't know whether they are in or out. It is cold here and they do prefer to stay inside most of the time. Of course I understand that they should be kept safely indoors and I do my best but once they get out they won't allow themselves to be caught. I wait 30 minutes or so then open the door and call them by which time they are usually waiting to come back in. "Was the kitten injured?? " Donny was not injured in this specific incident. He has been injured once before in a seperate incident. I did not notice until I saw the scratches on his ears. I noticed two symmetrical scratches on each ear, right at the softest part of his ears and litle pieces were missing. This made think that another cat, possible my other kitten, but could be one of these feral cats. The scratches look almost personal since they are in the exact spot where the ear is the softest. There are stil tiny little pieces missing from his ears. I don't like to see my kittens in danger but it is so hard to keep them in. "And was this at night?" It was the middle of the night and I was sound asleep. The screaming noise he made was unbelievable and brought me right up out of bed. I live out in the sticks so there is no traffic but it is slighty frightening to think what one of these predators could do to my precious kitties. With their claws and teeth they can put up a fight but obviously have little chance against a determined killer. The noise they are capable of making might help them to scare off potential agressors though! I understand that my kitties should be kept indoors and appreciate the reminders. I will renew my efforts to keep them in. In the event they do get out I will try to notice right away and coax them back in as soon as possible. It would break my heart if anything happened to my friends. They are the first kitties I have had that were all mine. I adopted them at 6 weeks old and we have really bonded. Lawrence Lawerance I don't know about your area but here in Florida racoon are major incidnet carriers of Rabies I hope the little ones have had all their shots Matthew > I understand that my kitties should be kept indoors and appreciate the > reminders. I will renew my efforts to keep them in. In the event they > do get out I will try to notice right away and coax them back in as > soon as possible. It would break my heart if anything happened to my > friends. They are the first kitties I have had that were all mine. I > adopted them at 6 weeks old and we have really bonded. It's pretty simple really. When you know you need to open the door where they might get out put them behind a closed door. If coming in from outside come in first empty handed and secure them in a room then go back out and bring in what you need to. I do it all the time, and have NEVER had either of my cats get out. It's not that hard and only takes a little bit longer to do it this way. > It's pretty simple really. When you know you need to open the > door where they might get out put them behind a closed door. If [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > out. It's not that hard and only takes a little bit longer to do > it this way. That's the way I keep mine in, too. I keep trying to tell my sister this, but she just doesn't get it. All of her cats have gotten out and stayed gone a while because of it. You'd think she'd learn. But nooooooooo. Now she has a 3rd kitty who is fast, and determined to get out now that she has many times. Once she's out there she can't be caught either. She makes it into a game of "catch me!". SignatureCheryl >> I understand that my kitties should be kept indoors and appreciate >> the reminders. I will renew my efforts to keep them in. In the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > and have NEVER had either of my cats get out. It's not that hard and > only takes a little bit longer to do it this way. Or just build an enclosed porch onto the front door. That would make things a lot easier. SignatureBritta "There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast." -- Unknown Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album >What chance do you think >there is for my kitten in a fight with a racoon? A house cat can not stand up to a wild racoon. > On 13 Jan 2006 20:04:04 -0800, "lwhaley@paulbunyan.net" > <lwhaley@paulbunyan.net> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > A house cat can not stand up to a wild racoon. Yes they can I have seen it before with my own eyes but the cat was injured and the racoon killed > My 6 month old named Donny had a confrontation with a racoon. He was > outside and I was inside sleeping when he made the most unbelievable [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > babies. > http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=9040654&uid=4297243 Worry alot I got my spirit http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=j9u1k4 by hearing him fighting off a hawk at about 8 weeks old. I had to throw a log at the hawk to scare him off. It damage his tail and had punctured his back. Coyotes, wolves and feral dogs will consider a kitten or cat a source of food. As for a skunk have you ever had an animals sprayed before you will never smell tht smell ever again. If you want a way to keep the animals away I use cayenne pepper along the property and by the trash when I put food there I use bleach on the cans and around the cans. I also had to build a specail enclousure due to having bears in my area. My home backs up to a wildlife reserve area Matthew In my locale, Coyotes, Wolves, Racoons, Bobcats, Skunks even Bears are known to be present. I have seen Bears during the daytime (usually in the spring) but the others are out primarily at night. I have never seen any of the others during the daytime even when hiking in the mountains (mostly on trails). I still keep my cats inside because I did lose one (IKE) about six years ago. My main entrance has three doors so there is no problem preventing escapes there. When I do use the deck door, I am very careful to make sure Tiger doesn't get out. Amber isn't even interested. ---MIKE--- >>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire >> (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580') > Worry alot I got my spirit http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=j9u1k4 by > hearing him fighting off a hawk at about 8 weeks old. I had to throw a log [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Matthew That hawk must have been young and inexperienced and your cat quite precocious to notice and have time to fight off a hawk at 8 weeks. Is that so? Well, if the hawk puncture his back, then the stoop was stealthy and already to make off. Your kitty had to be mighty fast to react in time. Was the kitty already in the air and his fighting caused the hawk to drop him? Good suggestions. I gather tomato juice and vinegar or lemon or whatever is still a big mess to deal with? I looked at the picture of your cat, very intent. Are those also your pictures next to this? I was surprised by the nubile red thong bikini person. Not quite the pussy cat pictures I'm expecting. I guess it's a random public site. Funny. >> Worry alot I got my spirit http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=j9u1k4 by >> hearing him fighting off a hawk at about 8 weeks old. I had to throw a [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Good suggestions. I gather tomato juice and vinegar or lemon or > whatever is still a big mess to deal with? I used everything to stop the intrusions of the scavengers. We have idiots neighbor's that think it is cute to feed the wildlife. Even being arrested for feeding the bears and being sued by other neighbor's including my self for damage casued by the bears. He still does it they had to relocate the bears and I believe that they were to friendly to humans and had to be put down. We he feeds the racoons and I am not going to shoot them trapping them does not help more keep coming. I had to install specail enclosures to keep the varmits out. The racoons figured out how to open the locks so I learned to put bleach all around when I put food in the garbage > I looked at the picture of your cat, very intent. Are those also your > pictures next to this? I was surprised by the nubile red thong bikini > person. Not quite the pussy cat pictures I'm expecting. I guess it's a > random public site. Funny. that is a tinypic.com site like tiny url public site everyone gripes when you post a picture plus these newsgroup sites have a limit on the binaries size you can post He was about 8 weeks maybe 10 weeks tops. I believe what happened was that the hawk did not have a good grip and was forced to drop him and came in for strike at his neck. He had his tail and him half way pinned. Spirit was puffed up to twice his size and giving it to the hawk where he could not get a good strike unless he exposed his eyes. I came in just in time to throw the heavy branch at the hawk knocking it for a loop. Spirit ran into the shed and I was able to retrieve him and have him treat with my vet friend Spirit had piercing wounds to his spinal area, the fur at the end of his tail was ripped off and his tail suffer spinal damage where he can wag his tail like a dog instead on the swish of a cat's. Spirit was lucky the hawk missed the spine. You are probably right about the hawk being young and inexperienced. Spirit still cringes when he hears a hawk or eagle on the TV. I don't know what happened to the hawk haven't seen it since but this happened 3 years ago Thanks to all for the comments and advice. Good luck to you in the future. > Thanks to all for the comments and advice. Good luck to you in the > future. Every need any help just ask or ping one of there are actually nice people out here that will help you and not judge > Worry alot I got my spirit http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=j9u1k4 by > hearing him fighting off a hawk at about 8 weeks old. I had to throw a log [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Matthew That hawk must have been young and inexperienced and your cat quite precocious to notice and have time to fight off a hawk at 8 weeks. Is that so? Well, if the hawk puncture his back, then the stoop was stealthy and already to make off. Your kitty had to be mighty fast to react in time. Was the kitty already in the air and his fighting caused the hawk to drop him? Good suggestions. I gather tomato juice and vinegar or lemon or whatever is still a big mess to deal with? I looked at the picture of your cat, very intent. Are those also your pictures next to this? I was surprised by the nubile red thong bikini person. Not quite the pussy cat pictures I'm expecting. I guess it's a random public site. Funny. > My 6 month old named Donny had a confrontation with a racoon. He was > outside and I was inside sleeping when he made the most unbelievable > screaming noise. I was quite surprised he could make such a sound and > I went right out to see what's up and saw the racoon running away. By > the time I got my gun I was unable to get a good shot. Even in Minnesota's North Woods, isn't it illegal to gratuitously shoot animals? (Obviously the South has no monopoly on gun-toting "rednecks"!) > I also have skunks approach my house somtimes. We have raccoons and skunks in residential areas here, too - Pasadena and Altadena, especially. SFAIK, no one has ever considered shooting them! (Perhaps our residents are more civilized?) "isn't it illegal to gratuitously shoot animals? (Obviously the South has no monopoly on gun-toting "rednecks"!) " Answer: No, it is legal to shoot skunks and coons anytime. Comment: It is unfair for you to call me such a name. I am the farthest from such a thing possible. I'm sure you think quite a lot of yourself and although it is not necessary for me to do so I say these things in my defence: 1. I did not own a firearm before I moved here. I own them out of necessity not desire or sport. 2. I am a vegetarian and have never hunted or killed an animal for sport. 3. My dogs have been sprayed twice by skunks. 4. Where I live, firearms are a neccessity and are owned by almost ever person. My neighbors advised me to arm myself when I moved here and they were right. They even loaned me a shotgun till I could afford one. 5. I own firearms for the express purpose of defending myself, my animals and my property "Perhaps our residents are more civilized?)" Perhaps, but it is not only legal but expected where I live to be capable of defending yourself and your property so that others will not have to do it for you. I live in a place where I have little choice and I bet more of your neighbors are armed than you will ever know. I am sure you are quite satisfied to call me names in this public forum but I find it difficult to imagine that your behaviour in this regard is "civilized". Good luck to you and good bye. I have top posted this but who are you responding to? > "isn't it illegal to > gratuitously shoot animals? (Obviously the South has no [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Good luck to you and good bye. "I have top posted this but who are you responding to? " 12. EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Just making sure I kill filed her not to long ago so I did not see the response. She is a self center old bitty snob that is the cleaned up version of what I think of her. > Just making sure I kill filed her not to long ago so I did not > see the response. She is a self center old bitty snob that is > the cleaned up version of what I think of her. I don't care how old someone is - I judge people by their behavior. There are plenty of wonderful old people around, so don't insult them by using the word "old" as a negative word for someone you don't like. After all, you'll be old yourself someday... IF you're lucky! :) Joyce I am old that is why I can use it :-) > Comment: It is unfair for you to call me such a name. I am the > farthest from such a thing possible. I'm sure you think quite a lot of > yourself and although it is not necessary for me to do so I say these > things in my defence: Hi Lawrence, no need to take Evelyn's comments personally. She thinks she's the world's arbiter of "fine culture" which makes her superior to everyone else. If you live among wolves, coyotes and other predators, you had damn well better be armed! About keeping your cats from getting out, here's what works for me: When you're going to go out, first put the cats in a separate room with the door closed, then move your things outside, then come back in and shut the front door. Now let the kitties out, and leave your house empty-handed, so that you have your hands free to keep them from escaping. Coming back inside, reverse the process: put your stuff down, enter the house with your hands free, gather up the kitties and put them in a room with the door closed, go back and get your stuff, and once the front door is closed, let them out of the closed room. It's a pain in the butt, but better than having your kitten eaten by an eagle or coyote! Good luck, Joyce jXwXeXrXmXoX...@sonic.net said: If you live among wolves, coyotes and other predators, you had damn well better be armed! Reply: Thank You. Of course it is absurd that I should defend firearm ownership when I am in such a situation. I am not proud, just resigned to defending myself and my property. I am a peace and love hippie from way back and I wish these things were not neccessary. So far I have killed four skunks and really it breaks my heart each time. A skunk is similar in size and appearance to a cat. Once I had an entire litter parade themselves across my place. They are beautiful but dangerous. Each of my dogs has been sprayed and I found the experience to be quite unpleasant for me and the dogs. Shooting them on sight is less unpleasant, that's all. Lawrence > Reply: Thank You. Of course it is absurd that I should defend firearm > ownership when I am in such a situation. I am not proud, just resigned > to defending myself and my property. I am a peace and love hippie > from way back and I wish these things were not neccessary. They aren't necessary, especially to "defend" yourself against wildlife - wildlife that has much more "right" to roam your property than you do. If you were really a "peace and love hippie" the mere thought of a firearm in your home would be repugnant. > So far I > have killed four skunks and really it breaks my heart each time. A > skunk is similar in size and appearance to a cat. Once I had an entire > litter parade themselves across my place. They are beautiful but > dangerous. Skunks aren't dangerous unless they are rabid. Rabid skunks willl appear during the day time, will be "off" in behavior (circling, staggering as if drunk, dragging hindquarters, etc.) and will usually be quite easy to spot. If you had a female skunk on your propert with kits, even in the day time, more than likely she was only looking for food. >Each of my dogs has been sprayed and I found the experience > to be quite unpleasant for me and the dogs. Shooting them on sight is > less unpleasant, that's all. So killing innocent animals is easier to you than keeping your dogs indoors when skunks are likely to roam for food. Yet, you claim to be "peaceful" and "loving". Un-f.cking-believeable. -L. > Skunks aren't dangerous unless they are rabid... > If you had a female skunk on your propert with > kits, even in the day time, more than likely she was only > looking for food. If all he had were skunks, I'd agree with you, but wolves? Coyotes? He himself could be in danger from them. So even if he did keep his cats indoors, is he going to keep himself indoors, too? Joyce > > Skunks aren't dangerous unless they are rabid... > > If you had a female skunk on your propert with [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > He himself could be in danger from them. So even if he did keep his > cats indoors, is he going to keep himself indoors, too? I'n curious as to just where in "Northern Minnesota" one encounters coyotes! (Wolves, I'll grant you, but SFAIK, they are still a protected species, so shooting them is not an option.) Coyotes have always been found in the Western U.S. > Joyce >> > Skunks aren't dangerous unless they are rabid... >> > If you had a female skunk on your propert with [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >they are still a protected species, so shooting them is not >an option.) Coyotes have always been found in the Western U.S. I don't know for sure if there are coyotes in northern Minnesota, but they have spread over most of the rest of the continental USA from their original territory in the West. They have spread all of the way to the Atlantic coast. They have proven to be more skilled at living among humans than most other predators, whose ecological niche they are now filling. SignatureJohn F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria > >> > Skunks aren't dangerous unless they are rabid... > >> > If you had a female skunk on your propert with [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > among humans than most other predators, whose ecological niche they > are now filling. Coyote are present in all 48 continental states, and possibly Alaska. > [Coyotes] have proven to be more skilled at living among humans > than most other predators, whose ecological niche they are now > filling. *Whose* niche are the coyotes filling? Humans'? Or that of other predators (if so, which other predators)? Joyce > > [Coyotes] have proven to be more skilled at living among humans > > than most other predators, whose ecological niche they are now [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Joyce Let's see...How about cougars, bears, moose, elk for starters. Coyotes are very skilled at living among us. We see and hear them all the time and we're hardly "out in the wilds". This area is old ranch land just starting to be developed. We have deer, turkey, hawks, and yes, lots of coyotes. We've even seen a cougar last winter but just the one and just that one time. Unfortunately, some idiots around here insist on letting their cats and dogs out unleashed, so I don't expect the coyotes to move on anytime soon, with such a good "food supply"...Makes me sick to think about it.... >>> > Skunks aren't dangerous unless they are rabid... >>> > If you had a female skunk on your propert with [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > among humans than most other predators, whose ecological niche they > are now filling. Okay, on that I stand corrected - I've lived in the Western U.S. for most of my adult life, and they certainly didn't exist in the Midwest at the time I left Minnesota. (But I still maintain that no law-abiding civilian in the U.S. "needs" to own a gun!) >I'n curious as to just where in "Northern Minnesota" one >encounters coyotes! (Wolves, I'll grant you, but SFAIK, >they are still a protected species, so shooting them is not >an option.) Are they still federally protected in Minnesota? I don't follow conservation issues as closely now as I used to, so I wonder if they could have been de-listed without my knowing. I remember, I think in the summer of 2004, that the gray wolf population in Minn, Mich and Wisconsin had rebounded beyond the set goals, and was expanding 3-5% annually. There was a Dept of Interior proposal to remove them from the threatened/endagered list. (IIRC, there were three wolf populations covered on the list, and only the Eastern population was being considered for being dropped from the list. Also, only gray wolves, not the red wolves of southeastern US.) The argrument being made that with the wolf population, especially in Minn, exceeding the goals, wolves were moving out of the wilderness areas. As I remember, that proposal was never acted on, but maybe I missed something? I suppose, after I finish the group, I should google and see what's been happening since I stopped following this issue. >Coyotes have always been found in the Western U.S. while that may have been the case, this is another case where our intervention in the balance of nature has changed things, at least according to http://www.fishbc.com/adventure/wilderness/animals/coyote.htm "Distribution - The coyote was originally native only to the prairies and arid west but as settlers moved across the country, altering the landscape and doing away with wolves, a new niche was opened up to the coyote. They now thrive in the Western Hemisphere from the Pacific to Atlantic Oceans." SignatureSteve Touchstone, faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Spot with loving memories of Rocky (RB) stouchst@JUNKsirinet.net [remove Junk for email] Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net wrote: > -L. <gentleboa@peacemail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > He himself could be in danger from them. So even if he did keep his > cats indoors, is he going to keep himself indoors, too? I'n curious as to just where in "Northern Minnesota" one encounters coyotes! (Wolves, I'll grant you, but SFAIK, they are still a protected species, so shooting them is not an option.) Coyotes have always been found in the Western U.S. > Joyce ===================================== We have coyotes here in Mass. we a a "bit" east of the Missippi. Recently a local (North of Boston) off duty police officer had to rescue his dog from a coyote. Cats that are allowwed outdoors around here have been disappearing. We are a suburban area not even rural. Suz&Spicey, who's afraid of the OUT. > jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > disappearing. We are a suburban area not even rural. > Suz&Spicey, who's afraid of the OUT. I think coyotes are found in all of the "lower 48" states now. They sure are in Florida. As for the OUT, I tell my guys that there are BEARS OUT THERE and that they love cats for dinner. Gazelle and Rocky are firmly convinced and have no desire to venture out. It helps that Gazelle is a chicken a kitty as there is. A Cardinal scared her when it flew up to the window in front of her nose. Pooka on the other hand went into a frenzy of "I _know_ I can catch that thing through the screen" when the same thing happened to her. > If all he had were skunks, I'd agree with you, but wolves? Coyotes? > He himself could be in danger from them. Not unless he goes looking for trouble with them. Both wolves and cotyotes will run before they will attack. >So even if he did keep his > cats indoors, is he going to keep himself indoors, too? A wolf or coytote is not going to attack a human out of the blue. In fact, it is extremely rare for any wild animal to attack a human unless the human has done something stupid like get between the animal and its babies. -L. >A wolf or coytote is not going to attack a human out of the blue. In >fact, it is extremely rare for any wild animal to attack a human unless >the human has done something stupid like get between the animal and its >babies. True of wolves, as far as I know, but not entirely true of coyotes. Coyotes do occasionally attack humans (even adults) without provocation. SignatureWayne M. >>A wolf or coytote is not going to attack a human out of the blue. In >>fact, it is extremely rare for any wild animal to attack a human unless [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > coyotes. Coyotes do occasionally attack humans (even adults) > without provocation. The only "provocation" being than humans having encroached upon their habitat? ;-) I suspect it's similar to the problems with bears in Yellowstone - "familiarity breeds contempt". They've learned enough about humans not to be automatically frightened of them (but that's STILL no excuse for gratuitously shooting them - there are other ways of scaring them off). >> True of wolves, as far as I know, but not entirely true of >> coyotes. Coyotes do occasionally attack humans (even adults) >> without provocation. > >The only "provocation" being than humans having encroached >upon their habitat? ;-) What is interesting is that wolves, despite that same "provocation" never do attack humans. I don't know if naturalists have any theories about *why* wolves have such a clean record. Could it be because they have stricter pack behavior than coyotes and never experiment? SignatureWayne M (indulged by Will and Heidi) >>> True of wolves, as far as I know, but not entirely true of >>> coyotes. Coyotes do occasionally attack humans (even adults) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > clean record. Could it be because they have stricter pack > behavior than coyotes and never experiment? Probably the reason is that the attacks if they did occur or that did occur never where recorded when the lands were first frontier and or communications were limited. I remember reading in family bibles death records children's names next to them carried off by wolves killed by a bear and so on > > Comment: It is unfair for you to call me such a name. I am the > > farthest from such a thing possible. I'm sure you think quite a lot of [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Good luck, > Joyce I'll probably get flamed for this, but there's another way to "train" your cats to not run out of an open door - it takes 2 people (and don't do this when the weather is too cold). Have one person stand outside with the hose on but the spray nozzle off. Have another person open the door. When the cat runs out turn the spray nozzle on and spray him/her thoroughly with water from the hose. We do this with Jessie occasionally and it keeps her from running outside for about 2 or 3 months before she tries again. SignatureHugs, CatNipped See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ >>> Comment: It is unfair for you to call me such a name. I am the >>> farthest from such a thing possible. I'm sure you think quite a [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > with Jessie occasionally and it keeps her from running outside for > about 2 or 3 months before she tries again. Hmmm, that's an option! I never thought to try this with Vino. He always gets out but we're not really trying too hard. All he does is go to the lawn and chow down on grass. We put all our stuff inside and then pick him up and bring him in. Just in time for him to puke the grass up in the middle of the kitchen. He has grass inside too, but prefers the "real" stuff. SignatureBritta "There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast." -- Unknown Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album >>>> Comment: It is unfair for you to call me such a name. I am the >>>> farthest from such a thing possible. I'm sure you think quite a [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > middle of the kitchen. He has grass inside too, but prefers the "real" > stuff. If that's all he's doing, I wouldn't worry about it. Jessie, on the other hand, has been known to make us chase her up and down the block just for the fun of it. ;> SignatureHugs, CatNipped See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ >If that's all he's doing, I wouldn't worry about it. Jessie, on the other >hand, has been known to make us chase her up and down the block just for the >fun of it. ;> I think Sammy has abandoned this particular game. But there was a time when she would dart out whenever she could, and she'd lead me on a merry chase. Thankfully, she never went very far, in fact she kept to the limits of the area where I let her play when we go out together - so she was always in the back of the apartment complex and still safe from cars etc. SignatureSteve Touchstone, faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Spot with loving memories of Rocky (RB) stouchst@JUNKsirinet.net [remove Junk for email] Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html > Hmmm, that's an option! I never thought to try this with Vino. He > always gets out but we're not really trying too hard. All he does is go > to the lawn and chow down on grass. We put all our stuff inside and > then pick him up and bring him in. Just in time for him to puke the > grass up in the middle of the kitchen. He has grass inside too, but > prefers the "real" stuff. At least you have him trained to use the kitchen floor, not the living-room carpet! (Which most of our contrary owners seem to prefer.) > >> When you're going to go out, first put the cats in a separate room > >> with the door closed, then move your things outside, then come back [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >> Good luck, > >> Joyce We have kind of a variation of your tactic. When exiting, pick up cat, open door, start backing out, set cat back in and shut door. Doesn't work if your hands are full. Sherry > We have kind of a variation of your tactic. When exiting, pick up cat, > open door, start backing out, set cat back in and shut door. Doesn't > work if your hands are full. I used to call this the "Toss'n'Lock" technique. Pick up cat, start backing out, toss the cat back in (gently, toward an open area, but with enough of an arm swing to assure the cat will land some distance from the door), and then shut the door as quickly as possible, locking the cat in. Another thing to do when entering a house with flight-risk cats, is to hold a large bag or briefcase in front of you, but held down near the floor, blocking the cat's exit as you move inside. Might be a bit more tricky if you have to worry about two cats, though. Joyce >> We have kind of a variation of your tactic. When exiting, pick up >> cat, open door, start backing out, set cat back in and shut door. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > from the door), and then shut the door as quickly as possible, > locking the cat in. Yup, we do this one. > Another thing to do when entering a house with flight-risk cats, is > to hold a large bag or briefcase in front of you, but held down near > the floor, blocking the cat's exit as you move inside. Might be a bit > more tricky if you have to worry about two cats, though. We do this one too! It generally works but Vino gets by often enough to ensure his steady supply of grass from the lawn ;-) SignatureBritta "There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast." -- Unknown Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album >>>>When you're going to go out, first put the cats in a separate room >>>>with the door closed, then move your things outside, then come back [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > open door, start backing out, set cat back in and shut door. Doesn't > work if your hands are full. My neighbors are used to seeing me going back and forth to my car with a squirt bottle in my hand. Fortunately Melly doesn't like water - I could have squirted Miu until he was dripping wet, and it wouldn't have deterred him from doing what he'd set his mind to. (But he was a large part Siamese - they're very different from other cats.) >>>Comment: It is unfair for you to call me such a name. I am the >>>farthest from such a thing possible. I'm sure you think quite a lot of [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > water from the hose. We do this with Jessie occasionally and it keeps her > from running outside for about 2 or 3 months before she tries again. Works pretty well for chasing away unwanted raccoons and 'possums, too! Why would any sane person want to use a gun? > Coming back inside, reverse the process: put your stuff down, enter > the house with your hands free, gather up the kitties and put them in > a room with the door closed, go back and get your stuff, and once the > front door is closed, let them out of the closed room. > Good luck, > Joyce We figured out that we can ring the doorbell and Boots will run to the back of the house. She's our only little escape artist. She's a smart cat though, so I don't expect this to be effective for long. Sherry >"isn't it illegal to >gratuitously shoot animals? (Obviously the South has no [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > >Good luck to you and good bye. Hi Lawrence! Don't worry abouy Evelyn. Some folks just don't have a clue... Where you live, I would expect you to be armed. And prepared to use it if necessary. Those kitties are sooooo cute! Which one is Donny? The tabby or the Siamese? --Kim and the Chigger Ranch Crew (Tiger, Casper and Lucy) > Answer: No, it is legal to shoot skunks and coons anytime. But NOT anyWHERE! I grew up in Minnesota (although not the North Woods). If anyone had shot raccoons or skunks anywhere in the public parks where they were often found, they'd have been arrested. (Arrest would have been even MORE certain if they discharged firearms in a residential area.) I can't believe things have changed for the worse since. > Comment: It is unfair for you to call me such a name. I am the > farthest from such a thing possible. You admit to owning a gun, and apparently think shooting a defenseless animal much smaller than yourself is justified - what's YOUR definition of "redneck"? > 1. I did not own a firearm before I moved here. I own them out of > necessity not desire or sport. Define "necessity" - when I lived there, Minnesota had sufficient law enforcement so that one didn't have to defend one's rights with a gun. > 2. I am a vegetarian and have never hunted or killed an animal for > sport. Really? I realize Minnesota is Paul Buynyam country - do the raccoons and skunks grow to life-threatening size, there? > 3. My dogs have been sprayed twice by skunks. The same dog? Most would learn from ONE such experience! (It's not as though the dog's nose wouldn't warn it of the skunk's presence well in advance.) > 4. Where I live, firearms are a neccessity and are owned by almost ever > person. My neighbors advised me to arm myself when I moved here and > they were right. They even loaned me a shotgun till I could afford > one. What time warp are you living in? (You say you're not a "redneck" - does "troll" describe you better?) > 5. I own firearms for the express purpose of defending myself, my > animals and my property Gee, when did law enforcement cease to exist in Northern Minnesota? > Perhaps, but it is not only legal but expected where I live to be > capable of defending yourself and your property so that others will not > have to do it for you. But "others" are PAID to do so - they're called "policemen" and "sheriffs". (FWIW, most such officers take a rather dim view of vigilante action.) > I live in a place where I have little choice > and I bet more of your neighbors are armed than you will ever know. I think you should toddle back to your time machine - you plainly took a wrong turn and landed in the 21st Century by mistake. 8-) >The same dog? Most would learn from ONE such experience! >(It's not as though the dog's nose wouldn't warn it of the >skunk's presence well in advance.) In my experience, most dogs would not. It seems to be a rare dog who can learn to leave skunks alone. Certainly that has been true of the farm dogs I have lived with. The same with porcupines. My father had a dog when he was a boy who was a very aggressive and efficient killer. The first time that dog got a mouthful of quills, he just seemed to take it *very* personally and developed a great hatred for the species. Thereafter he was death on porcupines and would kill any that he came upon, even though each one cost him another painful mouthful of quills. Dogs used for hunting bear will charge in against a cornered bear, even though the bear is likely to kill the first couple that reach it. Dogs are just not that big on self-preservation. SignatureWayne M. >>The same dog? Most would learn from ONE such experience! >>(It's not as though the dog's nose wouldn't warn it of the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > bear, even though the bear is likely to kill the first couple > that reach it. Dogs are just not that big on self-preservation. Or intelligence, apparently! Although I like dogs, I've never lived where I had enough space so I felt it would be fair to a dog to adopt one (especially since my tastes run to the larger breeds - Great Danes, St. Bernards, etc.). Having lived with cats all my life, I perhaps attribute too much intelligence to other companion animals. >Or intelligence, apparently! Although I like dogs, I've >never lived where I had enough space so I felt it would be >fair to a dog to adopt one (especially since my tastes run >to the larger breeds - Great Danes, St. Bernards, etc.). >Having lived with cats all my life, I perhaps attribute too >much intelligence to other companion animals. To us, it does seem like a lack of intelligence sometimes. But of course it's unfair to see it that way, just as it's unfair to see a cat's lesser trainability as lesser intelligence. It's not a difference of intelligence, but a difference in the instinctive mode of hunting. Cats are solitary hunters, so they are naturally selected for a certain amount of cowardice. It doesn't behoove them to tackle anything that can hurt them because if they are injured, they will likely starve before they can recover, and the individual is the genetic survival unit. Dogs are pack hunters, naturally selected to be aggressive and to be willing to close with prey (or threat) which is capable of injuring them. In the pack, their chance of recovery is greater than is a solitary's; and even a life-threatening injury is not necessarily a genetic dead-end because the survival unit is the genetically related pack, rather than the individual. SignatureWayne M. Pay no attention to her I don't. She has accused me of being abusive to my wife and family. She has taken pop shots at my education and my manhood recently. Kill file her it is the easiest way quite a few of us have. > We have raccoons and skunks in residential areas here, too - > Pasadena and Altadena, especially. SFAIK, no one has ever > considered shooting them! Don't discharge a firearm in built-up areas. In those areas use a trap. The racoon is not a threatened or endangered species in most areas. You can shoot or trap one if it becomes a nuisance. I think rabies precautions are needed for handling nuisance racoons. They can be infected. California has a trapping season for racoons. That's where coats and caps come from. SignatureThe night is just the shadow of the Earth. |
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