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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / August 2004How does he know?
The other two, with minimum complaint, accept flea collars. Ding shook his off within minutes last season. Tonight, all I did was unroll the thing, as he was enjoying the lap scratching (and I was not enjoying grooming out the fleabits)...BOOM....struggle. He just wanted to get away, and clearly didn't try to scratch me...or so I tell my finger as it clots. We are going to have to scheme. There is a certain conspiracy in packing. Why do the flea drops come in packages of 4, for over 10 pound and under 10 pound cats, when I have two over and one under? >The other two, with minimum complaint, accept flea collars. Ding shook >his off within minutes last season. Tonight, all I did was unroll the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >packages of 4, for over 10 pound and under 10 pound cats, when I have >two over and one under? Frontline comes three to the pack, and you can get the largest dog size and meter doses with a syringe or calibrated dropper. *Much* less expensive and it's easy to adjust the dosage to the cat size. I think you can do the same with Advantage. The OTC stuff is either just for killing eggs and larva or is way too dangerous to risk using since the cost of Frontline can be even lower, and it really works on fleas and ticks (I live in the country and my cats all go out frequently (for up to a week at a time), so Frontline is pretty much necessary). I have never found flea collars to be worth the price: either they don't work or the cat won't wear them and either loses them or gets a paw hung up in them. Breakaway collars always get removed within the first day or two by my outside cats - non-breakaway collars are way too dangerous for use on outdoor cats. Besides, it's harder to scratch the cat's neck if it's wearing a collar. -- T.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) DO NOT send attachments: messages with attachments are deleted at the server. > >The other two, with minimum complaint, accept flea collars. Ding shook > >his off within minutes last season. Tonight, all I did was unroll the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > frequently (for up to a week at a time), so Frontline is pretty much > necessary). Ah. So the different sizes are just premeasured quantities, rather than different concentrations? > Ah. So the different sizes are just premeasured quantities, rather > than different concentrations? Exactly. It's nasty stuff, and when you're messing around with measuring it in a syringe, you get it on your hands. With the tube, you just open it and use the whole thing in one application, which makes it much easier. But if you're on a budget, it's worth the extra work and mess to get the biggest tube and measure out individual applications, because it's *much* cheaper. The largest size they have (this is Advantage I'm talking about, I've never tried Frontline) is 4.0 ml. The size for an average-sized adult cat is 0.8 ml. So that's 5 applications from one large tube. Somehow I always manage to get much more than 5 out of one tube, though - more like 8 or 9 - so maybe I'm not putting enough on them. Joyce > But if you're on a budget, it's worth the extra work and mess to get the > biggest tube and measure out individual applications, because it's *much* > cheaper. We use Revolution and we're going to start doing just that. I consulted with TED and she said it was probably ok to do with a liquid. She didn't suggest doing it with pills (like Heartguard) because then you're not certain you're getting the right dosage. It's ridiculous that they charge almost the same thing for a big dog dosage than for a small cat dosage. Where I get my Revolution, the 6 pack for cats costs $52, so we're spending over $60 per month for our tribe. However, if we get the big dog three-pack, that costs $48.50 and has enough medication to treat our cats for two months, with some leftover. We'll basically be saving around 60%!!! > The largest size they have (this is Advantage I'm talking about, I've > never tried Frontline) is 4.0 ml. The size for an average-sized adult > cat is 0.8 ml. So that's 5 applications from one large tube. Somehow > I always manage to get much more than 5 out of one tube, though - more > like 8 or 9 - so maybe I'm not putting enough on them. Do make sure that you do the math with actual mg of the medication, not volume. Unless Frontline is the same concentrations in all the sizes. Revolution is not, the cat version has 60mg/L, while the dog version has twice that.  SignatureVictor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com > Do make sure that you do the math with actual mg of the medication, not > volume. Not sure what you mean by this. The stuff is in the same concentration no matter what size the tube is. I have a syringe (a small plastic one) that is marked off at the 0.8 ml line, and I fill the syringe to that marker from the big tube. But even after I've done it 5 times, there's still a lot left over. That mystifies me, because I would expect that five 0.8 ml applications would use up the entire 4.0 ml tube. At least, that's what most arithmetic systems would tell me. :) I don't understand how I end up with extra stuff left over. If anything, I should get *fewer* than the 5 applications, because I always end up spilling a little bit during the measuring. 'Tis a mystery... Joyce > > Do make sure that you do the math with actual mg of the medication, > > not [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > than the 5 applications, because I always end up spilling a little bit > during the measuring. 'Tis a mystery... Maybe I can offer an explanation for the mystery. Various chemical lab glassware is calibrated either "to contain (TC)" or "to deliver (TD)". The best examples are probably pipettes -- think of large glass calibrated droppers, perhaps using mouth suction rather than a rubber bulb. There are two basic kinds, one with a set of markings such as on a syringe, and the other with one mark (e.g., 5 milliliters). When you are trying to take 5 ml of a liquid with a pipette, you have to know if it's calibrated TD or TC. If it's TD, you just let the liquid run out -- the calibration includes the amount of liquid that will cling to the inside. If it is a TC, you are expected to blow it out, forcing the clinging bits out the nozzle. I would suspect these tubse are rated TD. When you extract the contents with a syringe, you are picking up remnants that normally aren't squeezed out. > Not sure what you mean by this. The stuff is in the same concentration > no matter what size the tube is. I have a syringe (a small plastic one) That is not the case for Revolution, if it is with the one you use, then it's not an issue. SignatureVictor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com >> But if you're on a budget, it's worth the extra work and mess to >> get the biggest tube and measure out individual applications, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >liquid. She didn't suggest doing it with pills (like Heartguard) >because then you're not certain you're getting the right dosage. Another issue with pills is that not all of them can safely be divided. There are some medications that can dissolve too fast, and thus give an overdose, if subdivided, and others that are sensitive to stomach acid, and thus have a coating that doesn't dissolve until after the pill has passed through the stomach into the intestine. I don't know if any pet medications fall into either of the above categories, but I know that some human medications do. SignatureJohn F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria > Frontline comes three to the pack, and you can get the largest dog > size and meter doses with a syringe or calibrated dropper. *Much* > less expensive and it's easy to adjust the dosage to the cat size. I > think you can do the same with Advantage. You can - that is exactly what I do. In fact, there's a small pet store I go to, where I explained that I wanted to do that, and they sold me a single tube of the big dog size. They had to break up a package of 4 in order to do that, but they were OK with it, probably figuring they could sell the other tubes individually, too. I just paid 1/4 of what they would have charged for the 4-pack. I would have bought the entire 4-pack, but I'm not sure how long Advantage lasts. Does anyone know? I can get 2 or 3 months' usage out of a single tube (on all 3 cats!). So the 4 tubes together would last 8-12 months. Does Advantage last a year? Joyce (snip) > I would have bought the entire 4-pack, but I'm not sure how long > Advantage lasts. Does anyone know? I can get 2 or 3 months' usage out of > a single tube (on all 3 cats!). So the 4 tubes together would last 8-12 > months. Does Advantage last a year? It should do - the sell-by date is usually a year or more on the pack. Check the pack before you buy - it's very dangerous to use spot-on solutions after they expire, but I would think you would get it with at least a year to go. Deb. Signaturehttp://www.scientific-art.com "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield >It should do - the sell-by date is usually a year or more on the pack. >Check the pack before you buy - it's very dangerous to use spot-on >solutions after they expire, but I would think you would get it with at >least a year to go. > >Deb. Eek. I've used Advantage that was expired before. I thought if anything it probablywould just be less effective. What is it that happens to them after they expire, what side effects do they have? Sherry > probablywould just be less effective. What is it that happens to them after > they expire, what side effects do they have? It depends on the medication. Some indeed just turn less effective, some might become toxic. SignatureVictor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com >> probablywould just be less effective. What is it that happens to them after >> they expire, what side effects do they have? > >It depends on the medication. Some indeed just turn less effective, some >might become toxic. The reason I'm wondering is that we've had Advantage donated that was near or just past the expire date. I'm sure it's fine *then*, but sometimes it lays at the shelter for a while even past that. I can't remember who gave it to us, but I"m thinking it was one of the vets. I better find out more about this or make sure the stuff gets used in time. Thanks for the heads up. Sherry Sherry > The reason I'm wondering is that we've had Advantage donated that was near > or just past the expire date. I'm sure it's fine *then*, but sometimes it > lays at the shelter for a while even past that. I can't remember who gave > it to us, but I"m thinking it was one of the vets. I better find out more > about this or make sure the stuff gets used in time. Thanks for the heads > up. Yeah - I imagine it's fine for a short while beyond the date, but if it was more than 4-6 months beyond I'd err on the side of caution. I doin't know exactly what happens after that, I just remember that the liquid can degrade over a long time to become actually toxic to the cat. If you find information to the contrary I'd be interested to know, Sherry - thanks! Deb. Signaturehttp://www.scientific-art.com "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield >The other two, with minimum complaint, accept flea collars. Ding shook >his off within minutes last season. ---------------------<snip>---------------------- We were at TED one time with our old girl Misty (RB). The vet showed us just how effective flea collars were as he took a flea comb and combed several out from under the flea collar. We got a flea comb and later that day, Misty and I had a flea combing session that got all the little bastards off her. You could almost see the relief on her face as she let me handle and comb her more than she would ever put up with on other occasions. Now we use Advantage and have fairly good results with it, but I'd never bother with a flea collar again unless they've improved them somehow in the last few years. I believe every cat owner should have a flea comb and use it occasionally just to be sure our babies are pest-free. Regards and Purrs, O J Howard Berkowitz from hcb@gettcomm.com said %1 > The other two, with minimum complaint, accept flea collars. Ding shook > his off within minutes last season. Tonight, all I did was unroll the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > in packages of 4, for over 10 pound and under 10 pound cats, when I > have two over and one under? Because you're supposed to *keep on* using it... SignatureThe One-and-only Holy Moses? > The other two, with minimum complaint, accept flea collars. Ding shook > his off within minutes last season. Tonight, all I did was unroll the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > packages of 4, for over 10 pound and under 10 pound cats, when I have > two over and one under? If you look at the package for the Advantage, its the same stuff for dogs and cats, only the amount varies. Also a somewhat lighter than recommended dose works just fine. I buy the package for a BIG dog. And use a syringe to measure it. One tube treats both my cats, my dog, my daughters three cats, and both her dogs reasonable well. Only problem is the stuff is oily and will eat the measurements off the syringe if you aren't careful. Jo > > The other two, with minimum complaint, accept flea collars. Ding shook > > his off within minutes last season. Tonight, all I did was unroll the [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Only problem is the stuff is oily and will eat the measurements off the > syringe if you aren't careful. Even with disposable syringes, a common enough lab trick is to put tape around the barrel of the syrings at the level to which you want to draw fluid. > Only problem is the stuff is oily and will eat the measurements off the > syringe if you aren't careful. I put a piece of masking tape around the syringe at the correct spot, so when the measurements dissolved, I still would know where the line used to be! Joyce |
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