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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / July 2004Bonnie herding micey toys
I posted once before about how I've come home to find all of the play-n-squeak mice toys lined up in a row. At the time I thought it was just wierd. When I vaccum the house, I put all the toys into a cat bed that no one sleeps in anymore. I just witnessed Bonnie creeping up to the cat bed and pulling each mouse toy out and carrying them one by one by their neck to a spot by the door. She'd meow when she put one down like she was calling someone. Isn't that mama cat behavior?  SignatureCheryl > I posted once before about how I've come home to find all of the > play-n-squeak mice toys lined up in a row. At the time I thought it [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > meow when she put one down like she was calling someone. Isn't that > mama cat behavior? I'd say so!! In the fine newsgroup "rec.pets.cats.anecdotes", Karen Chuplis <kchuplis@alltel.net> artfully composed this message within <news:BD15D7C7.37300%kchuplis@alltel.net> on 10 Jul 2004: >> I posted once before about how I've come home to find all of >> the play-n-squeak mice toys lined up in a row. At the time I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I'd say so!! To make it weirder, she wouldn't let Shadow come upstairs. She was practically guarding the top of the stairs. Then Shamrock came up and she gave up. She can't rule him. Last year, I thought it was possible she was pregnant when I trapped her, but that was a long time ago for a cat. I wonder if some just have a maternal instinct that never goes away? SignatureCheryl > In the fine newsgroup "rec.pets.cats.anecdotes", Karen Chuplis > <kchuplis@alltel.net> artfully composed this message within [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > trapped her, but that was a long time ago for a cat. I wonder if > some just have a maternal instinct that never goes away? Some certainly do. Our cat Meow was a moma all her life to her one batch of kittens. And look at Mary's Mimi who will mother anything that lets her. > > Last year, I thought it was possible she was pregnant when I > > trapped her, but that was a long time ago for a cat. I wonder if [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of > kittens. And look at Mary's Mimi who will mother anything that lets her. Perhaps even parental rather than maternal. I adopted Mr. Clark, Rhonda, and Ding together. He was an estimated 3 years old, and neutered as an adult. Once we were at home, he took over the two kittens' hygiene and welfare, admittedly looking martyred when allowing them to attempt to nurse on him. He also let Ding ride "horseback" on him. Mr. Clark is immediately entranced by any human baby that enters the house, promptly going to their side, giving them any needed baths, etc. While they have never met, Mr. Clark and a very close friend's ex-tomcat, Schiz, seem to be soul brothers. Schiz routinely tucks the children in at night, and patrols their rooms. A few months ago, he ran to my friend (the mother) in extreme agitation, insisting she follow him up the stairs. once there, he started flinging himself against a closed bedroom door, where, as it developed, one of the human children was having a seizure (from a known condition). He stayed glued to the situation until resolved. Howard Berkowitz <hcb@gettcomm.com> had some very interesting things to say about Re: Bonnie herding micey toys: >Perhaps even parental rather than maternal. I adopted Mr. Clark, Rhonda, >and Ding together. He was an estimated 3 years old, and neutered as an >adult. Once we were at home, he took over the two kittens' hygiene and >welfare, admittedly looking martyred when allowing them to attempt to >nurse on him. He also let Ding ride "horseback" on him. I had a tom who, even before neutering, was a great kitten-sitter. He'd play with them, groom them, give hunting lessons, etc. Signature"Don't mess with major appliances unless you know what you are doing (or unless your life insurance policy is up-to-date)." - John, RCFL > Howard Berkowitz <hcb@gettcomm.com> had some very interesting things > to say about Re: Bonnie herding micey toys: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I had a tom who, even before neutering, was a great kitten-sitter. > He'd play with them, groom them, give hunting lessons, etc. That reminds me of the frantic phone call I got a few years ago from a woman who had just found some tiny kittens next to a dead feral mum. She wanted us to take the kittens in and hand rear them, but we all have jobs so couldn't. She said that she already had five kids and a German Shepherd to look after. I suggested that she teach the older kids how to feed the kittens with formula, and to see if the Alsation would be willing to keep the kittens clean and warm. She tried one of the kittens with the German Shephard, who licked it enthusiastically, and started to mother it straight away. The rest of the kittens joined them, and they all survived, with the kids competing to feed them with the formula. :) Despite her protestations during the first phone call that she 'wasn't a cat person', she kept all the kittens. :) Jeanette >That reminds me of the frantic phone call I got a few years ago from a woman >who had just found some tiny kittens next to a dead feral mum. She wanted us [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Jeanette What a lovely story! I guess that the special cuteness about kittens works on d*gs too. What I'd like to see is a picture of that dog with three or four kittens riding her piggy-back. Regards and Purrs, O J I have a friend whose German Shepherd adopted the new kitten, carrying him around in her mouth. They became great friends, although Balzac, the kitten, spent a rather soggy kittenhood. > I have a friend whose German Shepherd adopted the new kitten, carrying > him around in her mouth. They became great friends, although Balzac, > the kitten, spent a rather soggy kittenhood. Years ago I had a mixed breed spayed female dog (some border collie, some sheltie, some fence-jumper). Ginger had never had puppies of her own. We ended up adopting a kitten at about 4 weeks of age when his mother died. Aries (the kitten) was able to eat canned food, and we were giving him formula supplements, but he really NEEDED the maternal contact. He decided that Ginger would do. He ended up nursing off the dog, who began lactating. The funniest part was that the dog couldn't figure out how to wean the cat, and Aries continued to sporadically nurse off Ginger until he was over a year old. That cat thought he was a dog- he'd climb into the neighbor's yard and chase their German Shepard. He'd also tree other cats who wandered into his territory. He was a HUGE thing- 20 pounds of cat. We were never sure if he was so big because he had Maine Coon in him or if it was being raised as a dog. He was a great cat- I miss him. Katrina > > I have a friend whose German Shepherd adopted the new kitten, carrying > > him around in her mouth. They became great friends, although Balzac, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Katrina Aw, that's really cute. My Fenda (RB) sometimes acted in a very doggy way, and she adored dogs. I used to ask Ade if we should get a dog as a pet for her. :) She did have some sense though, she never approached a strange dog unless there was a fence or gate between her and the dog. Jeanette > I have a friend whose German Shepherd adopted the new kitten, carrying > him around in her mouth. They became great friends, although Balzac, > the kitten, spent a rather soggy kittenhood. I don't know what it is with German Shepherds and cats, but I've known several of them that just love cats. Next door to where I used to live was a GSD called Sadie who used to drop her toys in front of the cats. SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat. >> Howard Berkowitz <hcb@gettcomm.com> had some very interesting things >> to say about Re: Bonnie herding micey toys: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >Jeanette My guess is that the German Shepherd would not let the kittens go. Ever try to get anything from a German Shepherd when it was protecting it? >>> Howard Berkowitz <hcb@gettcomm.com> had some very interesting things >>> to say about Re: Bonnie herding micey toys: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >Ever try to get anything from a German Shepherd when it was protecting >it? I think there is probably nothing in the world more motherly than a female German shepherd. ;) Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/ What a wonderful story! Thanks. Best wishes, SignaturePolonca & Soncek > That reminds me of the frantic phone call I got a few years ago from a woman > who had just found some tiny kittens next to a dead feral mum. She wanted us [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Jeanette >Perhaps even parental rather than maternal. I adopted Mr. Clark, Rhonda, >and Ding together. He was an estimated 3 years old, and neutered as an [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >having a seizure (from a known condition). He stayed glued to the >situation until resolved. Mr. Clark and Schiz are remarkable cats. -- CATherine > >Perhaps even parental rather than maternal. I adopted Mr. Clark, Rhonda, > >and Ding together. He was an estimated 3 years old, and neutered as an [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Mr. Clark and Schiz are remarkable cats. I don't have a picture of Schiz, but my three are at http://www.pixelmeow.com/afhpics/files/hberkowitz2.html The pics don't really convey size -- Mr. Clark is more the size and shape of a small bulldog. Ding is now almost as long, but much slimmer and, I would guess, 2/3 to 1/2 Mr. Clark's weight. Rhonda seemed half Ding's size, and I thought she was tiny until she napped on the scale and I found she weighed 8 pounds. It's all relative. >> >Perhaps even parental rather than maternal. I adopted Mr. Clark, Rhonda, >> >and Ding together. He was an estimated 3 years old, and neutered as an [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >Ding's size, and I thought she was tiny until she napped on the scale >and I found she weighed 8 pounds. It's all relative. MLB They are all very aware and intelligent looking cats. >>> Perhaps even parental rather than maternal. I adopted Mr. Clark, Rhonda, >>> and Ding together. He was an estimated 3 years old, and neutered as an [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Ding's size, and I thought she was tiny until she napped on the scale > and I found she weighed 8 pounds. It's all relative. Beautiful cats!!!! I love the name Mr. Clark :) What nice portraits you do of them. > Beautiful cats!!!! I love the name Mr. Clark :) What nice portraits you > do > of them. If you are a Tom Clancy reader, you'll know the relationship between Ding and his mentor, Mr. Clark. Clancy's Mr. Clark is warm, relaxed, and loving in normal circumstances -- and utterly lethal otherwise. Rhonda is named after COL Rhonda Cornum, another adrenaline junkie (and heroine). Some people said things, and then:- Howard Berkowitz added >While they have never met, Mr. Clark and a very close friend's >ex-tomcat, Schiz, seem to be soul brothers. Schiz routinely tucks the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >having a seizure (from a known condition). He stayed glued to the >situation until resolved. Wow! SignatureRichard, whose Squeaky Chair can be seen at http://www.squeaky.demon.co.uk You know the movie you're watching is a "chick flick" if you wake up and your wife is crying. --Rick Oie >>> Last year, I thought it was possible she was pregnant when I >>> trapped her, but that was a long time ago for a cat. I wonder if [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > having a seizure (from a known condition). He stayed glued to the > situation until resolved. What a hero kitty!!! I just have to comment here. I once had a mama cat who let her babies (the ones I kept) nurse until they were 13 months old. One of those kittens got pregnant herself, and nursed until the day she gave birth to her own litter. This mama cat was very strange. I had found her in my yard when I was living in Mesa, AZ. Her own mama was a feral, and I'd often seen mama and litter from a distance. Nobody could get close to them. I was able to adopt the one kitten because it became too sick to run away from me. We didn't think she would make it, she was so skinny. I named her Spider. My two older cats (one male, one female) adopted and mothered her. Spider had an appointment to be spayed and was only about 5 months old when I came home one day and found her entertaining some toms in the yard.... It was her first (and only) litter, and the babes started arriving around 3:30 a.m. - which is when Spider woke me up with her screaming. Yes, she was literally screaming. I'd never heard (or heard of) a mama cat do that when in labor before (or since). I helped as best I could. After all 5 kittens were born and cleaned up, Spider refused to tend them. For three solid days and nights I had to just about hold her down in the nursery box. Then, all of a sudden, Spider decided that she liked being a mama. At one point she even allowed an older tom - who was twice her size - to nurse in the box with the kittens. When the kittens were old enough, I gave two of them away. Spider was disappointed at having fewer babies, so one night she went out and stole a baby bat from a nest, brought it in the house and let it nurse on her. I kid you not! Spider's daughter, Tippy - who I kept and who had her own litter (from which I kept two) showed every sign of being just like her mom in the mothering department, but when her kittens were 3-4 months old, she disappeared. A few months prior to this, someone had dumped three kittens in my yard. They were about 8 weeks old. Two of them were so absolutely gorgeous that it was easy to find takers for them. The third was plain black and very sick with diarrhea and runny eyes. After I got him well, I decided to keep him and named him "Egypt." As a Kitten, Egypt liked to play rough. He was a holy terror. I think Tippy went overdue with her pregnancy because she was so afraid of him. Finally I started keeping him separate, and after a couple of days, Tippy had her kittens. They opened their eyes on the 4th day after they were born - I think because they were so overdue. When I let Egypt loose again, he started playing with the newborn kittens, I caught him a couple of times literally batting the poor blind things around like hockey pucks. (Oddly enough, Tippy didn't seem to mind this in the least!) After Tippy disappeared, Egypt decided to let the three remaining kittens nurse on him. And this went on until the kittens were 11 months old. The following summer I found a tiny orange tabby female in a dumpster and of course had to bring her home. She began nursing on our black lab/border collie mix girl dog, Digger. There was no milk, but Digger seemed to enjoy taking care of the kitten. I found an excellent home for the orange girl because Spider would not let me have another female cat (aside from her own daughters). One of Tippy's kittens that I kept was a long-haired tuxedo that I named Whitefoot. He's the one who first started nursing on Egypt. Whitefoot used to let another of our dogs (a male Tibetan terrier) carry him around in his mouth like a chew toy - even after the cat was full-grown. I might have mentioned Whitefoot here before. He lived with me for nine years and died from cytauxzoon felis. He's the one that was so protective of two young Maine Coons, Cotton and Safford, who joined us later on. The three of them once treed a young dog that was visiting the house. OK I'm done rambling for now! "Pat" <spam.me.not.pdavis@fidnet.com> had some very interesting things to say about Re: cross-species parenting (LONG): >I just have to comment here. I once had a mama cat who let her babies (the >ones I kept) nurse until they were 13 months old. One of those kittens got >pregnant herself, and nursed until the day she gave birth to her own litter. I once had a cat who was reluctant to wean her kittens [we never had trouble finding homes for Crystal's kittens], but she wasn't this bad. :-) Signature"Don't mess with major appliances unless you know what you are doing (or unless your life insurance policy is up-to-date)." - John, RCFL > While they have never met, Mr. Clark and a very close friend's > ex-tomcat, Schiz, seem to be soul brothers. Schiz routinely tucks the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > having a seizure (from a known condition). He stayed glued to the > situation until resolved. Wow! What kind of cat is Schiz? He sounds incredibly intelligent. Joyce > > While they have never met, Mr. Clark and a very close friend's > > ex-tomcat, Schiz, seem to be soul brothers. Schiz routinely tucks the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Wow! What kind of cat is Schiz? He sounds incredibly intelligent. His human describes him as her "cow cat". Big, shorthaired, mostly white is black patches. My Clifford (RB) also did things along those lines. I had had a substitute housecleaner in (I work at home), who didn't bother to tell me she was mopping outside my office. As I took my first step, I water-skiied across the room, into a wall, and fell, breaking my lower leg. Helpfully, my worker tried to ease my pain by straightening and massaging my leg. Since I had the wind knocked out of me, I couldn't tell her to stop. Clifford did something I never saw before -- circling around me in a stiff-legged hopping dance, back arched, fur on end, and saying in clear Cattish "take him to the ER!" Clifford had his _own_ sound that meant "take me to the emergency vet." Unfortunately, he didn't tell me that when he first developed bladder cancer. By the time I caught the problem, missed by the regular housecall vet, and brought him to one of the regional referral centers, it was quite advanced. Getting a second opinion at the other referral center, they started him on an antiinflammatory and somewhat cancer chemotherapeutic drug, to which he showed some response. While it was a long shot, if this could induce some remission, he was a candidate for stronger drugs. While there was a limited response, it wasn't enough. We had a long nose-to-nose talk, and I told him I wanted him to hang on, but if he had to leave, I respected that. Shortly after that, he went into another room and died peacefully, a little short of his 18th birthday. I still feel a connection with him -- makes me think differently of an afterlife. While his arranged and dysfunctional mate, Chatterley, wanted to die in my arms, I'm convinced Clifford did not want me to suffer. >>> While they have never met, Mr. Clark and a very close friend's >>> ex-tomcat, Schiz, seem to be soul brothers. Schiz routinely tucks the [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > wanted to die in my arms, I'm convinced Clifford did not want me to > suffer. It's no consolation but bladder cancer is pretty resistant to treatment. One of our cats died of it, and the reading I did showed that it's very persistant. It's just lousy though. > in article hcb-1BDDF3.17540811072004@text.giganews.com, Howard Berkowitz > at > hcb@gettcomm.com wrote on 7/11/04 4:54 PM: > It's no consolation but bladder cancer is pretty resistant to treatment. > One > of our cats died of it, and the reading I did showed that it's very > persistant. It's just lousy though. I do have access to current human and other research, and it was frustrating that Clifford's cancer would easily be curable in humans, but that would involve surgical removal of the bladder and creating or attaching a receptacle. That would be a questionable quality of life for a cat, especially an older one. No one wanted to try it. Right now, the best practice seems to start with an nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory such as piroxicam. This relieves pain, inflammation, and may shrink the tumor. If the cat can be stabilized, more intense chemotherapy can induce remissions of months to years. Apparently, the platinum chemotherapeutic agents are much better tolerated in cats than in humans. The emerging treatment in experimental dogs, and now in limited human trials, if surgery is impractical, is laser therapy to dye-sensitized parts of the tumor. >> in article hcb-1BDDF3.17540811072004@text.giganews.com, Howard >> Berkowitz at [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >quality of life for a cat, especially an older one. No one wanted >to try it. My father had bladder cancer, which they treated by removing the bladder and urethra, and then modifying part of his large intestine to serve as a substitute bladder. This meant that he didn't have to wear a drain pouch, as would be the case if the kidneys were connected directly to the outside. He had to drain himself three times a day, using a rubber catheter. A cat obviously wouldn't be able to do that himself, and wouldn't understand why the humans kept sticking a catheter into him. SignatureJohn F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > able to do that himself, and wouldn't understand why the humans kept > sticking a catheter into him. There were some veterinary surgical experiments with draining the kidneys into the intestine, but infection was a constant problem. Some newer medical equipment technologies might make this more feasible--I'm thinking of vascular stents that are impregnated with slow-release drugs. There are also oral urinary antibacterials that might be given, if a reasonably tasty form could be developed. In the long term, there is hope for new methods, such as laser therapy inside the bladder, after the tumor has been sensitized. Obviously, with most of our four-legged families, there can be quality of life issues that would be different than a human that gives informed consent. Still, with increasing numbers of cats making it well into their twenties, some more aggressive methods may be worth exploring. They won't be cheap. =>> On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 20:23:09 -0400, Howard Berkowitz >> <hcb@gettcomm.com> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >twenties, some more aggressive methods may be worth exploring. They >won't be cheap. I can see that connecting the kidneys directly to the intestine, with the intestine still having its normal function, would lead to infection working its way back up to the kidneys. In my father's case, the doctors initially connected the kidneys directly out to a catheter, separated out part of the small intestine and part of the large intestine, connected the remainder of his small intestine to the remainder of the large intestine, then sealed the new pouch's large-intestine end and connected the small-intestine end to the outside as a stoma (resembling a second navel). They then pumped him full of antibiotics, to prevent peritonitis. He had to heal for a couple of weeks before they hooked the kidneys to the new pouch. As I recall, the bladder removal, pouch construction, and connection of the kidneys to the pouch added up to 12 or 13 total hours of surgery. Doing all this for a cat would be beyond what most people could afford, and I suspect that, even if you had pet insurance, the insurance company would probably refuse to pay for that much surgery. SignatureJohn F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria > I posted once before about how I've come home to find all of the > play-n-squeak mice toys lined up in a row. At the time I thought it [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > meow when she put one down like she was calling someone. Isn't that > mama cat behavior? Sounds like she's lining up her 'kittens' to be counted. How cute! Jill ---------------------<snip>---------------------- >Isn't that mama cat behavior? Sounds like it to me. It reminds me of watching my sister when she was a child lining her dolls up in a row to have a tea party for them. Regards and Purrs, O J > I posted once before about how I've come home to find all of the > play-n-squeak mice toys lined up in a row. At the time I thought it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > carrying them one by one by their neck to a spot by the door. She'd > meow when she put one down like she was calling someone. [snip] Maybe she has a bit of border collie in her? ;) Joyce |
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