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Abelard has gone stupid!

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Pat - 10 Jul 2004 01:09 GMT
One day last week he was sleeping on the driveway and called out to him. He
did not wake up. I called louder. He still did not wake up. I panicked. I
thought he was laying there dead. I ran over closer and yelled "ABELARD!!
WAKE UP!!!" and he still did not wake up. Then I started taking the chain
off the gate, making a loud clanking sound, and he woke up.

This started me worrying that he might not wake up when the horses run past
and he could be trampled, but then Gloria moved the horses to another field.
Abelard continued sleeping in the driveway this past week, but every time I
called him, he would wake up and run to me. So I had pretty much forgotten
about the incident - until today.

I went to town today. When I returned, coming up the drive, Abelard was
asleep in the usual spot. I figured the car would wake him, but it didn't. I
stopped right in front of him and honked the horn several times. He did not
wake up. I backed up and started driving around him, and stopped when the
driver side door was next to him, and yelled at the top of my lungs. He did
not wake up. I figured this time he's *really* dead!

I parked, slammed the car door and ran over to Abelard and yelled "WAKE
UP!!" He did not wake up, but I could see him breathing. I started to wonder
if maybe he's going deaf. He woke up when I touched him. I carried him
inside and tested his hearing every way I could think of. He could hear
everything just fine.

What on earth could be wrong with this cat????? In this condition, he's in
danger from any passing vehicle or horse. Hardly anyone comes up here, but
occasionally the UPS truck, or some neighbor visiting, and they would expect
a cat laying in the road to move ... and may not stop. And what if it's
night time?

I guess I need to get him a very wide glow-in-the-dark collar (where?), and
post signs along the drive: "Beware - Sleeping orange cat may not move". But
I want to get to the bottom of why it's sometimes so hard to wake him. This
just started about a week ago. I've alse noticed that his body now often
trembles like it does when he's really cold. But it's mid-July!

It's Friday night and I can't talk to the vet until Monday. Has anyone got
any ideas?
Jo Firey - 10 Jul 2004 01:27 GMT
Are you sure the ways you have tested his hearing he could not have figured
out from sight?  But he would have to be totally deaf to not hear and feel a
car right there you would think.

Out Sam used to go out in the orchard to nap on really hot summer afternoons
and we would have to go get him and bring him in.  He would just be totally
out.

Jo
> One day last week he was sleeping on the driveway and called out to him. He
> did not wake up. I called louder. He still did not wake up. I panicked. I
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> It's Friday night and I can't talk to the vet until Monday. Has anyone got
> any ideas?
Pat - 10 Jul 2004 01:41 GMT
> Are you sure the ways you have tested his hearing he could not have figured
> out from sight?  But he would have to be totally deaf to not hear and feel a
> car right there you would think.

He reacted to flies buzzing behind the curtains, where he could not see
them. I left him in the next room, he was facing away from me, I smooched to
him, and his ears pricked up and he turned and looked at me. I let him back
out in the yard, opened a can, and he ran to the kitchen looking for the
food. Several other things like that. I wanted to be sure he was not
reacting to something he could see.

> Out Sam used to go out in the orchard to nap on really hot summer afternoons
> and we would have to go get him and bring him in.  He would just be totally
> out.

It has been really hot here lately.
Karen Chuplis - 10 Jul 2004 02:58 GMT
>> Are you sure the ways you have tested his hearing he could not have
> figured
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> It has been really hot here lately.

Maybe it is the heat. You know how you get that dead sleep. Maybe keep him
in a bit more until he seems perkier.
Tree Line - 12 Jul 2004 04:43 GMT
> > It's Friday night and I can't talk to the vet until Monday. Has anyone got
> > any ideas?

One last thought until you can see a vet tomorrow.

If a cat has neurological problems, like epilepsy or strange episodes,
the drug of choice for cats is phenobarbital, sp? Don't know if most
regular vets know this but it's been known for decades. It's not
Dilantin which is the drug or used to be the drug of choice for dogs
and humans a while ago.

Took a lot of vets to find out this very simple thing for a cat who
had seizures. These seizures were caused by a brain lesion when the
cat was probably kicked while being born or shortly after. She was the
runt of the litter. X-rays of the brain confirmed this without any
doubt. This was before the use of MRI's. I would gather an MRI would
be quite expensive compared to an X-ray.

Phenobarbital controlled the seizures, very small pill and dosage,
maybe 1/8th of a grain. Took a highly specialized vet, a professor of
neurology, to make this call. A call all the local vets did not know
which was frightening in their ignorance where they prescribed
antibiotics and Dilantin which in this case were quite wrong.
Pat - 12 Jul 2004 04:50 GMT
> One last thought until you can see a vet tomorrow.
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> which was frightening in their ignorance where they prescribed
> antibiotics and Dilantin which in this case were quite wrong.

This is very good to know. Thanks a lot for sharing it!

He's been acting completely normal since the last incident, but I'm still
going to speak with a vet or three.
Sherry - 12 Jul 2004 05:00 GMT
>Phenobarbital controlled the seizures, very small pill and dosage,
>maybe 1/8th of a grain. Took a highly specialized vet, a professor of
>neurology, to make this call. A call all the local vets did not know
>which was frightening in their ignorance where they prescribed
>antibiotics and Dilantin which in this case were quite wrong.

You're right about Phenobarbitol being a very old drug, a very effective one,
and also a very inexpensive one compared to the new magic wonder-cures like
neurontin, dilantin, and a couple more I can't recall the names of right
offhand.
It worked marvelously on our dachshund that had seizures.
Sherry
Howard Berkowitz - 12 Jul 2004 05:56 GMT
> > > It's Friday night and I can't talk to the vet until Monday. Has
> > > anyone got
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> doubt. This was before the use of MRI's. I would gather an MRI would
> be quite expensive compared to an X-ray.

Depending on your region, MRIs may have come down in price.  They are
immensely better than regular X-rays in detecting soft tissue lesions,
as in the brain.  

Some human hospitals will do off-hours veterinary MRIs. An extreme case
is in Canada, where the relevant ministry sets a fixed amount they will
pay the hospital for MRI services. So, even while humans wait, the
hospital may do veterinary MRIs once they've reached their compensable
limit for humans.

It would be unusual for a plain X-ray to confirm a brain lesion, unless
there were bone involved. X-rays can be improved by injecting dye, but
that usually involves the riskier procedure of threading a catheter into
the brain.

Phenobarbital is indeed a useful drug for many epilepsies, but not all.
Its major side effect is sedation. It's not that much, if at all,
cheaper than other anticonvulsants that have gone generic, such as
Dilantin (generically phenytoin) or Tegritol (generically
carbemazapine). In humans, these are not necessarily the first choice
for all epilepsies, but are very frequently used.

> Phenobarbital controlled the seizures, very small pill and dosage,
> maybe 1/8th of a grain. Took a highly specialized vet, a professor of
> neurology, to make this call. A call all the local vets did not know
> which was frightening in their ignorance where they prescribed
> antibiotics and Dilantin which in this case were quite wrong

There is a saying in medicine that when you hear hoofbeats, the wise
money says horses, not zebras. There is another saying that all cases
solved by neurologists are zebras.
Mishi - 12 Jul 2004 12:43 GMT
<< There is a saying in medicine that when you hear hoofbeats, the wise
money says horses, not zebras. There is another saying that all cases
solved by neurologists are zebras. >>

I like this saying! I thought it may be heat exhaustion - that will make you
unresponsive and give you the shakes.  He just laid down for a nap on the
nice warm driveway and was overheated fairly quickly.  Next time (if there
is a next time), try taking his temp to see if it is elevated, and that
might give you a clue.

Good luck!
Patti
Pat - 12 Jul 2004 14:57 GMT
> I thought it may be heat exhaustion - that will make you
> unresponsive and give you the shakes.  He just laid down for a nap on the
> nice warm driveway and was overheated fairly quickly.  Next time (if there
> is a next time), try taking his temp to see if it is elevated, and that
> might give you a clue.

This explanation makes a lot of sense. I only wish it could be applied in
this instance. Both times, he was sleeping under a tree, in the shade. And
it hadn't been very hot, either.
Yoj - 10 Jul 2004 01:31 GMT
> One day last week he was sleeping on the driveway and called out to him. He
> did not wake up. I called louder. He still did not wake up. I panicked. I
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> It's Friday night and I can't talk to the vet until Monday. Has anyone got
> any ideas?

The only think I can think of is temporary deafness. I don't know if
that's even possible, but I once had a brain-damaged cat who apparently
went temporarily blind every so often.  Most of the time he was fine,
but at times he would blunder around, bumping into things.

I hope the vet can come up with a definitive answer - and a solution.

Joy
Pat - 10 Jul 2004 01:42 GMT
> The only think I can think of is temporary deafness. I don't know if
> that's even possible, but I once had a brain-damaged cat who apparently
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Joy

I've never heard of temporary deafness. I will research it. Thanks for the
idea.
Christine Burel - 10 Jul 2004 02:40 GMT
> > The only think I can think of is temporary deafness. I don't know if
> > that's even possible, but I once had a brain-damaged cat who apparently
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I've never heard of temporary deafness. I will research it. Thanks for the
> idea.

How old is Abelard?  Could he have a hypothyroid?
Christine
Pat - 10 Jul 2004 03:03 GMT
He was born July 27, 2002. He's thin, but that's typical of an Aby.

> > > The only think I can think of is temporary deafness. I don't know if
> > > that's even possible, but I once had a brain-damaged cat who apparently
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> How old is Abelard?  Could he have a hypothyroid?
> Christine
Yoj - 10 Jul 2004 05:49 GMT
> > The only think I can think of is temporary deafness. I don't know if
> > that's even possible, but I once had a brain-damaged cat who apparently
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I've never heard of temporary deafness. I will research it. Thanks for the
> idea.

I haven't heard of it either, but I had never heard of temporary
blindness before Charky (RB) experienced it.

Joy
m. L. Briggs - 10 Jul 2004 01:49 GMT
>One day last week he was sleeping on the driveway and called out to him. He
>did not wake up. I called louder. He still did not wake up. I panicked. I
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>It's Friday night and I can't talk to the vet until Monday. Has anyone got
>any ideas?

Perhaps it would be wise to keep him in the house!   MLB
Pat - 10 Jul 2004 01:50 GMT
> Perhaps it would be wise to keep him in the house!   MLB

He would be utterly miserable if forced to stay in. Besides, I don't have a
screen door, and it's too hot to leave the main door shut except late at
night, but even some nights in the Ozarks can be too hot for comfortable
sleep. I don't have a/c.
Pat - 10 Jul 2004 01:51 GMT
P.S. I can't have a screen door, as the wood around the outer door frame has
rotted away and won't hold anything.

> > Perhaps it would be wise to keep him in the house!   MLB
>
> He would be utterly miserable if forced to stay in. Besides, I don't have a
> screen door, and it's too hot to leave the main door shut except late at
> night, but even some nights in the Ozarks can be too hot for comfortable
> sleep. I don't have a/c.
m. L. Briggs - 10 Jul 2004 01:57 GMT
>> Perhaps it would be wise to keep him in the house!   MLB
>
>He would be utterly miserable if forced to stay in. Besides, I don't have a
>screen door, and it's too hot to leave the main door shut except late at
>night, but even some nights in the Ozarks can be too hot for comfortable
>sleep. I don't have a/c.

A circulating fan can help quite a bit.  Better he be "miserable" than
squashed.  MLB
Dan M - 10 Jul 2004 02:42 GMT
> I guess I need to get him a very wide glow-in-the-dark collar (where?), and
> post signs along the drive: "Beware - Sleeping orange cat may not move". But
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> It's Friday night and I can't talk to the vet until Monday. Has anyone got
> any ideas?

How often does the trembling happen? And what are the circumstances
under which it occurs? One of the things that trembling can indicate in
a cat is poisoning.  Take a look at
http://petplace.netscape.com/articles/artShow.asp?artID=232 for some of
the common plants that can cause poisoning symptoms in cats.
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 10 Jul 2004 03:27 GMT
> But I want to get to the bottom of why it's sometimes so hard to wake
> him.

I don't know if this applies to Abelard, but I remember an incident from
when Smudge was a kitten. I woke up in the middle of the night and discovered
that I was lying completely on top of her. She was lying flat (*very* flat)
on the mattress. I got scared, and tried to wake her. I called to her, shook
her, patted her (not really hard, but somewhat hard), shook her some more.
She didn't move. I started to panic. And then, she just kind of... woke up.
She sat up, looking wobbly and bleary. I think she had just been very, very
deeply asleep.

Looking back at that now, I wonder if, because she was directly underneath
me, she wasn't getting enough oxygen. And maybe that's why her sleep was so
profound. If that's a possibility, then maybe something like that is happening
with Abelard? He could have some kind of sleep apnea, which would certainly
bring his oxygen levels down. (I'm suddenly picturing him wearing a little
CPAP. :) Sorry! I know you're worried, with good reason, but the image just
popped into my head.) Anyway, the oxygen thing is just a theory - I have no
idea if it makes any medical sense.

I would suggest you keep him in over the weekend, until you can bring him
to the vet. This sounds like something that should be checked out asap.

Purrs,
Joyce
Pat - 10 Jul 2004 05:03 GMT
Thanks, Joyce.

I brought him in a while ago and gave him as much of a bath as he would
tolerate (and it ain't much). Only the 2nd time in his life that I've tried
to bathe him  - because after the first time, I swore I would never try it
again with him. It kind of perked him up. I'll keep him in over the weekend,
too.

>  > But I want to get to the bottom of why it's sometimes so hard to wake
>  > him.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> Purrs,
> Joyce
Tree Line - 10 Jul 2004 07:43 GMT
> It's Friday night and I can't talk to the vet until Monday. Has anyone got
> any ideas?

Diabetic coma would have this also, the shakes, the inability to wake
up.

You don't mention the age or weight of your cat. How are his glucose
levels?

When people go into coma or epileptic seizures of the petit mal type,
they appear "stupid" but it's not really so. They are ill and need
help.
Sherry - 10 Jul 2004 09:25 GMT
>When people go into coma or epileptic seizures of the petit mal type,
>they appear "stupid" but it's not really so. They are ill and need
>help.

Absolutely true. They act as if they are in a trance.
When it's over, they will go to sleep.

Sherry
Pat - 10 Jul 2004 14:44 GMT
> Diabetic coma would have this also, the shakes, the inability to wake up.

If you were to feel what he's doing, you wouldn't call it "the shakes." It's
more of a high-speed vibration, and it's barely perceptible unless you're
holding the cat and feeling closely for it.

> You don't mention the age or weight of your cat.

He was born Jul 27, 2002. He's rather small and thin.

> How are his glucose levels?

I have no idea.

> When people go into coma or epileptic seizures of the petit mal type,
> they appear "stupid" but it's not really so. They are ill and need
> help.

Like I said in the first message, he *does* awaken upon hearing certain
noises or being touched, so he's *not* going into a coma.
JBHajos - 11 Jul 2004 14:11 GMT
>Like I said in the first message, he *does* awaken upon hearing certain
>noises or being touched, so he's *not* going into a coma.

  No, it doesn't sound like coma, especially at this age and size.
At least, not a diabetic coma.   Our Hobo *is* diabetic and will go
into a similar deep sleep occasionally.  No noise, touching, or even
food under his nose will wake him.  It's alarming and I was frantic
the first time he did this, but his diabetes is currently under
control and he had exhibited no symptoms of reaching the point of
being in a coma.   So we let him sleep it off and he's just fine.

I hope you can soon learn why Abelard has this problem; I know it
must be disturbing to you and I hope he'll stop pronto.

   Jeanne
Tree Line - 11 Jul 2004 14:35 GMT
> > Diabetic coma would have this also, the shakes, the inability to wake up.
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Like I said in the first message, he *does* awaken upon hearing certain
> noises or being touched, so he's *not* going into a coma.

It may not be a full-bore coma, but some type of comatose situation.
It's a disconnect. Like the words pre-syncope. Don't get hung upon on
the words. There are degrees of fainting, ven half-fainting, and
disorientation and getting slightly comatose to completely unable to
be awakened.

The situation is risky, albeit dangerous. It's like falling asleep at
the wheel while driving a car. I have had these arguments with
"doctors" in quotes because of their stupidity and rigid definitions.

Something is seriously or appears seriously out of whack. The
vibrations are definitely to my layman's point of view a very bad sign
of something not working correctly, whether it's a slight seizure to a
slight state of shock to a slight coma or comatose or coma-type.

In any case, do get back and let us know what you found out.
I assume you'll have to get a blood panel and maybe even an x-ray of
the brain to rule out lesions which can cause these problems, like
getting hit in the head when he was born because he sounds a bit like
the runt of the litter.

Hopefully it turns out to be trivial, but it's much safer to start
with assuming something is seriously out of whack. I find this true
for myself and for all living creatures.
Karen Chuplis - 11 Jul 2004 17:38 GMT
>>> Diabetic coma would have this also, the shakes, the inability to wake up.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> with assuming something is seriously out of whack. I find this true
> for myself and for all living creatures.

And it just occured to me, you'd better have the vet test for anemia,
considering the recent tragedy with Patrick.
Pat - 11 Jul 2004 18:00 GMT
> And it just occured to me, you'd better have the vet test for anemia,
> considering the recent tragedy with Patrick.

I forgot to post an update on Patrick! Friday Gloria once again spoke with
the vet who did the autopsy. It's been ascertained that he ate some hemp
dogbane. (Some babies will try anything once, and Patrick was a very
"mouthy" baby, from the moment he was born. Nibbling everything.) Gloria and
I walked through every pasture and weeded out every piece of the stuff.

No cat would eat that plant. Anyway, there wasn't any of it within 100 yards
of my house, which is the farthest I've ever seen Abelard go. And if he
*had* eaten it, he would be dead, anyway!
Jo Firey - 11 Jul 2004 18:43 GMT
> > And it just occured to me, you'd better have the vet test for anemia,
> > considering the recent tragedy with Patrick.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> "mouthy" baby, from the moment he was born. Nibbling everything.) Gloria and
> I walked through every pasture and weeded out every piece of the stuff.

At least you have answers.  It wasn't anything you did like the fertilizer
you used.  And the other horses are safe.  But Patrick was really a beauty
and a love wasn't he?

Jo
polonca12000 - 10 Jul 2004 15:44 GMT
Lots of purrs and best wishes for everything that is wrong with Abelard to
be solved quickly and easily,
Signature

Polonca & Soncek

> One day last week he was sleeping on the driveway and called out to him. He
> did not wake up. I called louder. He still did not wake up. I panicked.
<snip
Sam Nash - 10 Jul 2004 22:11 GMT
> One day last week he was sleeping on the driveway and called out to him. He
> did not wake up. I called louder. He still did not wake up. I panicked. I
> thought he was laying there dead. I ran over closer and yelled "ABELARD!!
> WAKE UP!!!" and he still did not wake up. Then I started taking the chain
> off the gate, making a loud clanking sound, and he woke up.
<snipped>
No idea of the cause but purrs aplenty for Abelard and for your worry.
Hoping for good news at the v*t.
Sam
CATherine - 11 Jul 2004 05:12 GMT
It doesn't sound to me like a hearing problem. It sounds more like a
neurological problem. Do you have a friend with an A/C? If so, maybe
Abelard could stay there until you can get him to the vet. It is
simply too dangerous to let him outside, without you there, in this
condition.

--
CATherine
LOL - 11 Jul 2004 06:07 GMT
(snippage)

> It's Friday night and I can't talk to the vet until Monday. Has anyone got
> any ideas?

I don't have any ideas what could be ailing your Abelard, but Ozzy and
Tiger are sending purrs that it is something minor and easily
remedied.

------
Krista
LOL - 11 Jul 2004 06:07 GMT
(snippage)

> It's Friday night and I can't talk to the vet until Monday. Has anyone got
> any ideas?

I don't have any ideas what could be ailing your Abelard, but Ozzy and
Tiger are sending purrs that it is something minor and easily
remedied.

------
Krista
Steve Touchstone - 12 Jul 2004 01:14 GMT
>One day last week he was sleeping on the driveway and called out to him. He
>did not wake up. I called louder. He still did not wake up. I panicked. I
>thought he was laying there dead. I ran over closer and yelled "ABELARD!!
>WAKE UP!!!" and he still did not wake up. Then I started taking the chain
>off the gate, making a loud clanking sound, and he woke up.
<snip>
Sorry, no ideas, so I can only tell you we're sending purrs and
keeping you in our thoughts.

Signature

Steve Touchstone,
faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Rocky

stouchst@JUNKsirinet.net [remove Junk for email]
Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html
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Howard Berkowitz - 12 Jul 2004 02:19 GMT
> >One day last week he was sleeping on the driveway and called out to him.
> >He
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> >chain
> >off the gate, making a loud clanking sound, and he woke up.

Been thinking about this, again from a human medical perspective, and my
first suspicion would be one of the epilepsies. What will be needed is
close observation, to see if he suddenly falls asleep on his feet, or
gets enough warning to lie down.  Once he is asleep, there would then be
a question of what reflexes go away, and how long it takes them to
return. In children, this is often done by videotaping them throughout
the day.

The good news is that such disorders usually are treatable with
medication. The diagnosis will be the problem. I'd certainly get
thorough toxic screening to see if it might be some intermittent or
chronic poisoning.  Is there a veterinary referral center in your area,
which would have a neurologist?
Tree Line - 13 Jul 2004 16:23 GMT

> Been thinking about this, again from a human medical perspective, and my
> first suspicion would be one of the epilepsies. What will be needed is
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> chronic poisoning.  Is there a veterinary referral center in your area,
> which would have a neurologist?

This is good post and your previous post in which you replied to me
was superb. and of course that is the one which is not showing up in
the Google archives. Figures.

In any case, you are right. X-rays show bone damage whereas MRI's will
show soft tissue lesions. In my case, there apparently was bone damage
which was pressing on the optic nerve. Hence the cat was blind in one
eye.

You were right about the horses and zebras. But the local vets and
even the vet students would not pay attention to me as I pointed out
that the cat was blind in one eye. It was so obvious, as seeing and
hearing the horses. The visiting vet from Boston, the professor of
neurology, had to point out to the well-fed and quite incompetent
future vets that the cat was blind in one eye and that was the clue to
where damage could be found in the brain.

To this day I cannot understand how any vet or vet student could be so
plain dumb and useless. It is truly terrifying. They just would not
listen as I patiently explained the reason the cat walked into walls
on the left is because she could not see. And this was not even my cat
and I could see that. At that time, I did not have any pets and am not
sure why I persisted in finding out what the answer was, going through
many local vets. The vets were not that expensive back then and I had
the time, obviously, and the money from somewhere. I would ask, who is
the best vet in the city, and go there and be quite disappointed. The
local ones I saw failed, some completely, some halfway, but none could
come up with the correct answer - phenobarbital for seizures in a
feline. Dumb and more dumb.

But your comments were astute. Very perceptive.

One warning, the vet school did not charge me for the professor of
neurology. But be careful. I could tell he half-heartedly asked me if
they, the school, could do brain surgery on the cat. I read between
the lines. I refused. There was somewhat a lack of enthusiasm when he
was asking me and I think it was because those years of students in
the world-famous vet school were not up to snuff. They were admitting
students not really capable of good veterinary practice.

But brain surgery on a small cat? The students were dumb and rude in
refusing to listen to me. Can you see the poor cat just plain wasting
away on the operating table while these morons had to be shown where
the optic nerve was and so forth? I felt the cat deserved to live
rather than die for the benefit of these useless students. Apparently
I was right. An associate had his pet die in a similar situation and
deduced that the extra time spent on the operating table for the
benefit of the future vets' show and tell is what did his beloved pet
in.
Howard Berkowitz - 13 Jul 2004 20:58 GMT
> You were right about the horses and zebras. But the local vets and
> even the vet students would not pay attention to me as I pointed out
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> future vets that the cat was blind in one eye and that was the clue to
> where damage could be found in the brain.

My Chatterley (RB) began having visual problems and circling, then a
gradual loss of control.  It was pretty obvious to me that it was
neurologic, and I really didn't go too much farther than with her
regular house-call vet. Our sense, admittedly without brain imaging, was
that it was a tumor rather than a cerebral bleed. I'm pretty familiar
with the treatment of human brain cancer, and decided that comfort
measures were about the right thing for her quality of life.

She went blind in the other eye, and there pretty obviously had been a
hemorrhage involved.  The pattern of progression was even more
suggestive of tumor.

It bothered her when she began having problems with bowel control, but
cheered up when I groomed her. Given that she got around the house and
still interacted well, I didn't feel euthanasia was appropriate -- she
seemed happy. Eventually, she collapsed, during an intense sleet storm.  
I couldn't see taking her through that to the ER, with a long period of
fear before euthanasia. Unfortunately, I didn't have any appropriate
drugs on hand, at least for terminal sedation.

As it was, she very much wanted to be with me, and was still eager to
eat four hours after her collapse. She began slipping in and out of
consciousness, but very clearly wanted to be held.  She would have
occasional convulsions that frightened her, but again, hugs seemed to
make a big difference. She died in my arms about eight hours after her
collapse.

> But brain surgery on a small cat?

If the clinical picture were suggestive of a small, nonaggressive tumor,
it might be possible. There are forms of focused radiation therapy that
also might help.

The biggest problem is that you really need a biopsy for the diagnosis
in most cases. As far as I could tell, the likely problem was an
aggessive tumor, the feline equivalent of a gliom or high-grade
astrocytoma.  If I personally had such a diagnosis, I'd think carefully
of the status of palliative care -- it has improved enough that it can
buy some life extension with reasonable quality of life. I'm not sure,
however, that the therapies would be acceptable to a cat.
JPHobbs - 14 Jul 2004 14:23 GMT
I had a cat that was 16 and 1\2 yrs oldshe started to be sort of incontinent
she wasn't blind but moved very little really and ate very littleshe was
losing weight the vets put her under and found she had small tumours on her
brain.
and that she was too old to undergo such a big operation. I had to let her
go. That was all of twenty yrs ago.Poor Panther she was part of the family
I hope Abelard comes through whatever is wrong with him sending Prayers
and Purrs for him.  Jean.P.

> > You were right about the horses and zebras. But the local vets and
> > even the vet students would not pay attention to me as I pointed out
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> buy some life extension with reasonable quality of life. I'm not sure,
> however, that the therapies would be acceptable to a cat.
Sherry - 14 Jul 2004 14:56 GMT
>I had a cat that was 16 and 1\2 yrs oldshe started to be sort of incontinent
>she wasn't blind but moved very little really and ate very littleshe was
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>I hope Abelard comes through whatever is wrong with him sending Prayers
>and Purrs for him.  Jean.P.

Twenty years ago, but I just bet you still think about that cat all the time. I
think about Cherokee almost daily....his story is a lot like Panther. He was 17
and I lost him March 30, 2000.

Sherry
Adrian - 15 Jul 2004 12:55 GMT
> Twenty years ago, but I just bet you still think about that cat all
> the time. I think about Cherokee almost daily....his story is a lot
> like Panther. He was 17 and I lost him March 30, 2000.

The cat I grew up with, Figaro, died May 1973 aged 20 years. I still
think about her and all my other RB cats. How can you forget a cat?
Signature

Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera)
A house is not a home, without a cat.

Richard - 12 Jul 2004 18:38 GMT
Some people said things, and then:-
Pat added

>One day last week he was sleeping on the driveway and called out to him. He
>did not wake up. I called louder. He still did not wake up. I panicked. I
>thought he was laying there dead. I ran over closer and yelled "ABELARD!!
>WAKE UP!!!" and he still did not wake up. Then I started taking the chain
>off the gate, making a loud clanking sound, and he woke up.

It *could* just be pure stubbornness.  Cats I've had, and Sally, have at
times point blank refused to move or even acknowledge my presence when,
for example, they were napping in my favourite chair, or the bed when I
wanted to sleep.  Each of them took it to different degrees but it's
true to say that sometimes a cat just plain doesn't want to budge.
Maybe Abelard was simply doing what comes naturally since all your other
tests showed him as normal.  ?

Signature

Richard, whose Squeaky Chair can be seen at http://www.squeaky.demon.co.uk 

"Bummer," said Pooh when Tigger dropped the joint in the honey jar.

 
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