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OT: Snake ID (Lyn?)

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Sherry - 25 May 2004 16:02 GMT
It's me again, with the same question. There is someone on this group who knows
snakes, and I thought I'd ask. Sorry for the OT. But this critter is in my
cellar. We are in the middle of tornado season, and we just have to get it out
of there.

I got a snake ID book, but it's really not very helpful. Apparantly a key issue
with identifying snakes is whether the "anal plate" is divided or individual.
Sorry, but if I was fresh enough to check out his (her?) anal plate, I wouldn't
be afraid to share a storm cellar with it anyway.

Thanks for any help.

http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake1.jpg
http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake2.jpg
:-\)Liz - 25 May 2004 20:52 GMT
It reminds me of the Bull/Cornsnakes(though they weren't quite that brightly
marked) we had when I lived with my GP's on their farm...they'd slither
under the chicken and their roosts and break and suck up the eggs ...Hated
those snakes I did....Does this snake hiss?...uggghhh. Me no like
Snakes....Dave Y. and his DW Patti on the other hand... love them:-( Yeak!
:-) Liz

> It's me again, with the same question. There is someone on this group who knows
> snakes, and I thought I'd ask. Sorry for the OT. But this critter is in my
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake1.jpg
> http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake2.jpg
Sherry - 25 May 2004 21:05 GMT
>It reminds me of the Bull/Cornsnakes(though they weren't quite that brightly
>marked) we had when I lived with my GP's on their farm...they'd slither

You're right, that's what it was. And I didn't even have to look at its anal
plate :)

Sherry
CK - 25 May 2004 20:55 GMT
> It's me again, with the same question. There is someone on this group who knows
> snakes, and I thought I'd ask. Sorry for the OT. But this critter is in my
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake1.jpg
> http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake2.jpg

You might want to post your pics in alt.binaries.pictures.animals for
the ID help. They do it there all the time for a variety of species. If
your ISP doesn't carry abpa, I can post your pics and message there and
relay their replies to you if you want.

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christal63 (at) yahoo (dot) com
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Sherry - 25 May 2004 21:04 GMT
>You might want to post your pics in alt.binaries.pictures.animals for
>the ID help. They do it there all the time for a variety of species. If
>your ISP doesn't carry abpa, I can post your pics and message there and
>relay their replies to you if you want.

Thanks for the offer, Christine. But I found it! With a picture, it looks
*exactly* like this one. It is a bullsnake. Now to figure out how to get out of
the cellar. I really don't want to kill it now, but I want it out of there. I
am leaving the door open today and see if it'll come out on its own, then seal
the place where it got in.

Sherry

Sherry
Cheryl - 25 May 2004 23:42 GMT
> Now to figure out how to get out of
> the cellar.

You might have to become Steve Erwin for a few minutes.

> I really don't want to kill it now, but I want it out of
> there. I am leaving the door open today and see if it'll come out on
> its own, then seal the place where it got in.

Do you know where it came in?  Yuck! I always dread coming upon a snake
while doing yardwork, I couldn't imagine one getting inside!

Signature

Cheryl

Kreisleriana - 25 May 2004 23:46 GMT
>> Now to figure out how to get out of
>> the cellar.
>
>You might have to become Steve Erwin for a few minutes.

I'm always waiting for the day a croc takes a chunk out of those
chunky legs of his.  He could feed a croc family for weeks. :P

Theresa
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Yowie - 25 May 2004 23:46 GMT
> >You might want to post your pics in alt.binaries.pictures.animals for
> >the ID help. They do it there all the time for a variety of species. If
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> am leaving the door open today and see if it'll come out on its own, then seal
> the place where it got in.

Are bullsnakes venemous? Here in Oz, with the top 9 most deadly snakes in
the world, its a pretty sensible idea to assume *any* snake you stumble
across here is quite capable of killing you. In fact, I don't know if
Australia has any *non*-venemous snakes.

The only other snake fact I know is that Aussie snake poison is very
different to American snake poisons in the way it reacts with humans.
Although I cann't remember why now.

Yowie
Jeanne Hedge - 26 May 2004 03:19 GMT
>> >You might want to post your pics in alt.binaries.pictures.animals for
>> >the ID help. They do it there all the time for a variety of species. If
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>different to American snake poisons in the way it reacts with humans.
>Although I cann't remember why now.

Bullsnakes are not venomous.

http://snr.unl.edu/herpneb/snake/BullSnake.html

Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha

http://www.jhedge.com
O J - 26 May 2004 06:55 GMT
>Here in Oz, with the top 9 most deadly snakes in
>the world, its a pretty sensible idea to assume *any* snake you stumble
>across here is quite capable of killing you. In fact, I don't know if
>Australia has any *non*-venemous snakes.

    The thing about Australian snakes that gets to me is that one of
the deadliest snakes is known as the "common brown."  If it was known
as the "uncommon brown that you'll only see in the outback on a bad
day" snake, I might not mind the idea so much.

Regards and Purrs,
O J
Sherry - 26 May 2004 14:51 GMT
> The thing about Australian snakes that gets to me is that one of
>the deadliest snakes is known as the "common brown."  If it was known
>as the "uncommon brown that you'll only see in the outback on a bad
>day" snake, I might not mind the idea so much.

LOL! Yeah, something about the word "common" being part of the name is just
downright disturbing.
I was advised by the extension office that there has never been a recorded case
of a poisonous snake in this county, although copperheads & rattlesnakes are in
the county west of us (where Steve T. lives). I don't think I'd stake my life
in that info., though.
Sherry
Steve Touchstone - 26 May 2004 23:51 GMT
>> The thing about Australian snakes that gets to me is that one of
>>the deadliest snakes is known as the "common brown."  If it was known
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>the county west of us (where Steve T. lives). I don't think I'd stake my life
>in that info., though.

Well, I certainly wouldn't put money on there not be any, despite what
the record may be. I've told the story before, but back when I was 8
or 9 we had a weekend cabin up at Laguna, east of San Diego. There
weren't supposed to any any rattlesnakes because of the elevation, but
sure enough I found one.
Signature

Steve Touchstone,
faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Rocky

stouchst@JUNKsirinet.net [remove Junk for email]
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jmcquown - 27 May 2004 00:06 GMT
>>> The thing about Australian snakes that gets to me is that one of
>>> the deadliest snakes is known as the "common brown."
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> weren't supposed to any any rattlesnakes because of the elevation, but
> sure enough I found one.

Somehow I don't think snakes read the same manual that the employees of
those government agencies do ;)

Jill
:-\)Liz - 26 May 2004 01:02 GMT
It will be a hassle but if you have one of those "grabbers" you use to get
cans off shelves or whatever, that will work pretty good.... I'm assuming...
depending how the weather has been these past couple of weeks in your neck
of the woods, Mr. Snake went under because of the heat of the day or if you
got all the wild weather....went made for dry cover.....:-) Liz

> >You might want to post your pics in alt.binaries.pictures.animals for
> >the ID help. They do it there all the time for a variety of species. If
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Sherry
Christopher Havlicek - 25 May 2004 21:31 GMT
> It's me again, with the same question. There is someone on this group who knows
> snakes, and I thought I'd ask. Sorry for the OT. But this critter is in my
Sorry for the big snip, but my server is really picky about having less
reply text than original text.

Could your visitor be an Eastern Fox Snake?  Though the coloration of
yours is somewhat lighter, the spot pattern is very close.  Here's a
link to one site that might help:

http://www.oplin.lib.oh.us/products/snake/fact%20pages/fox_snake/fox_snake.html

It doesn't appear to be a copperhead, which was my initial *brief*
impression, having nearly stepped on copperheads a number of times
(gotta watch those logs...;) ), but I'm by far no expert.

Hope it helps, but even more so, hope you don't have any tornadoes to
force you to share space with it.

Purrs-

Chris, Tripper, Katie, and Hazard
Yowie - 25 May 2004 23:40 GMT
> It's me again, with the same question. There is someone on this group who knows
> snakes, and I thought I'd ask. Sorry for the OT. But this critter is in my
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake1.jpg
> http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake2.jpg

Wouldn/t have the foggiest what species it is, but its a very pretty snake,
IMHO.

But I still would'nt go into you storm cellar, even if s/he was the snake
equivalent of Prince Charming or Cinderella.

Yowie
Magic Mood Jeep? - 26 May 2004 00:57 GMT
I took the liberty of posting your urls to abpa with a ping to someone who
frequents there who knows his stuff about snakes etc.  I'd call him a
herpetologist (one who studies snakes, lizards, frogs & such), but I'm not
sure if he really is or not.  Here's his reply:

The snake is harmless gopher snake (Pituophis catenifer). They're loud
hissers and will bite but are completely nonvenomous.
The snake is probably in your basement to eat rodents or seek shelter from
the heat. I would suggest that you remove the snake by sweeping it in to a
large trash can and then dump it outside.

Which snake ID book are you using?
I always recommend the Peterson Field Guides.

All venomous snakes in the US except for the coral snake are pit vipers,
that is they have a heat sensing  pit located between the eye and the
nostril.

There are some good gopher snake photos posted here:
http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?where-genre=Animal&rel-taxon=contains&
where-taxon=&rel-namesoup=like&where-namesoup=gopher+snake&where-lifeform=any&wh
ere-collectn=any&where-photographer=any&rel-location=like&where-location=&where-
continent=any&where-country=any&where-state=any&where-county=any&rel-kwid=equals
&where-kwid
=

or

http://tinyurl.com/2equr  (I used tinyurl.com, he posted the humongous one
above)

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> It's me again, with the same question. There is someone on this group who knows
> snakes, and I thought I'd ask. Sorry for the OT. But this critter is in my
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake1.jpg
> http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake2.jpg
Cheryl - 26 May 2004 01:33 GMT
"Magic Mood Jeep?" <nobody@nowhere.net> dumped this in  news:54Rsc.115740
$xw3.6829670@attbi_s04 on 25 May 2004:

> The snake is harmless gopher snake (Pituophis catenifer).

Cat-enifer? Ok, we can take the OT off this now.  :)

Signature

Cheryl

Jeanne Hedge - 26 May 2004 03:25 GMT
>"Magic Mood Jeep©" <nobody@nowhere.net> dumped this in  news:54Rsc.115740
>$xw3.6829670@attbi_s04 on 25 May 2004:
>
>> The snake is harmless gopher snake (Pituophis catenifer).
>
>Cat-enifer? Ok, we can take the OT off this now.  :)

Earlier someone thought the snake picture was a bull snake. I Googled
"bull snake", and came up with this link:

http://snr.unl.edu/herpneb/snake/BullSnake.html

It turns out that a bullsnake is also Pituophis catenifer!

According to info at

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/reptiles/snakes/Bullsnake.shtml

Bull Snakes are also known as Gopher Snakes (in western North America)
and Pine Snakes (in eastern North America).

Three names for one "cat", doesn't that just figure? ^_^

Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha

http://www.jhedge.com
Sherry - 26 May 2004 04:54 GMT
>I took the liberty of posting your urls to abpa with a ping to someone who
>frequents there who knows his stuff about snakes etc.  I'd call him a
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
>http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?where-genre=Animal&rel-taxon=contains&
where-taxon=&rel-namesoup=like&where-namesoup=gopher+snake&where-li
feform=any&where-collectn=any&where-photographer=any&rel-location=like&whe
re-location=&where-continent
>=any&where-country=any&where-state=any&where-county=any&rel-kwid=equals&where-kwid=

Thanks! It's the last picture. Also called abullsnake.I didn't know they were
also called gopher snakes. The book I was using was some handy-dandy Boy Scout
issue we still had left over from the BSA days. Pretty worthless. I found lots
better info. on  the internet. Sweeping it into a trash can sounds like a
better plan than I had.

Sherry
John F. Eldredge - 26 May 2004 17:38 GMT
On Tue, 25 May 2004 23:57:53 GMT, "Magic Mood Jeep©"
<nobody@nowhere.net> wrote:

>All venomous snakes in the US except for the coral snake are pit
>vipers, that is they have a heat sensing  pit located between the
>eye and the nostril.

One way to tell the American pit vipers from a greater distance is
that they all have triangular heads, with the width of the back of
the head noticeably greater than that of the neck.  As far as coral
snakes are concerned, remember the phrase, "Red next to yellow kills
a fellow". The red and yellow stripes on a coral snake adjoin each
other.  There are several nonpoisonous species with similiar colors,
but with a band of another color between the red and yellow bands.

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John F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com
PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

Gracecat - 27 May 2004 04:14 GMT
Added note about coral snakes... That bit about how they can only bite
certain areas of the human body because they can't fit their mouth around
(like the skin between thumb and forefinger)... bullhockey. Their fangs are
only a quarter inch long if I'm not mistaken, maybe an eighth. They can bite
bare skin, but typically they're not able to penetrate jeans or shoes.
Also, if I recall my snake trivia a bit more, their fangs don't operate on a
"hydraulic system". They don't inject venom like a rattlesnake. The coral
only can push a third-ish amount of the venom they hold while a rattlesnake
can push the entire amount.

yeah....  subject for debate though... I may be wrong
Grace

> I took the liberty of posting your urls to abpa with a ping to someone who
> frequents there who knows his stuff about snakes etc.  I'd call him a
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> There are some good gopher snake photos posted here:

http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?where-genre=Animal&rel-taxon=conta
ins&where-taxon=&rel-namesoup=like&where-namesoup=gopher+snake&where-lifefor
m=any&where-collectn=any&where-photographer=any&rel-location=like&where-loca
tion=&where-continent=any&where-country=any&where-state=any&where-county=any
&rel-kwid=equals&where-kwid=

> or
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> > http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake1.jpg
> > http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake2.jpg
David Yehudah - 26 May 2004 04:10 GMT
Hi, Sherry
    That is a bull snake, aka gopher snake and pine snake. It is not
venomous and, although it puts up a terrific threat display, hissing
loudly and striking furiously, it is unlikely he will actually bite you.
I have had them strike AT me and miss and even butt me with their noses.
They get up to eight feet long and are quite strong. They make great
pets. If you have venomous snakes in your area, encourage him to hang
around. He will eat most venomous snakes, especially rattlesnakes.
    If I were nearby, I would cheerfully take him off your hands. I had an
eight-footer a few years ago named Attila. I posted a couple of
anecdotes about him and how he interacted with our menage.
Cheers,
Dave

> It's me again, with the same question. There is someone on this group who knows
> snakes, and I thought I'd ask. Sorry for the OT. But this critter is in my
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake1.jpg
> http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake2.jpg

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"No, I could sleep, but I must not; death is too near; he must not steal
up on me. These fifteen years I have been making ready for him; I will
meet him awake."
    Maria Theresa

Sherry - 26 May 2004 05:01 GMT
>Hi, Sherry
>    That is a bull snake, aka gopher snake and pine snake. It is not
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>Cheers,
>Dave

Eight feet. EIGHT FEET. <boggle> This one is  probably 3.5 feet.
We do have gophers, bad. I'm not killing it but I'm not touching it either. But
I have a plan. I'm going down there tomorrow and aggravate it till it comes out
on its own. Sort of Steve Irwin style.
Or maybe I can herd it out with a broom.

Sherry
Marina - 26 May 2004 05:10 GMT
> Eight feet. EIGHT FEET. <boggle> This one is  probably 3.5 feet.
> We do have gophers, bad. I'm not killing it but I'm not touching it either. But
> I have a plan. I'm going down there tomorrow and aggravate it till it comes out
> on its own. Sort of Steve Irwin style.
> Or maybe I can herd it out with a broom.

Herding snakes. Sounds almost as good as herding cats. ;o) Purrs for the
very best of luck, Sherry. I hope you can get rid of your unwelcome visitor.

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LAL - 26 May 2004 18:18 GMT
Greetings...

Well, at least you don't have to worry about a rodent problem in your
cellar.  Let us know what you eventually end up doing with the guy.  Good
luck!
lal

> Hi, Sherry
> That is a bull snake, aka gopher snake and pine snake. It is not
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> > http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake1.jpg
> > http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake2.jpg
 
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