Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / May 2004
OT: Snake ID (Lyn?)
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Sherry - 25 May 2004 16:02 GMT It's me again, with the same question. There is someone on this group who knows snakes, and I thought I'd ask. Sorry for the OT. But this critter is in my cellar. We are in the middle of tornado season, and we just have to get it out of there.
I got a snake ID book, but it's really not very helpful. Apparantly a key issue with identifying snakes is whether the "anal plate" is divided or individual. Sorry, but if I was fresh enough to check out his (her?) anal plate, I wouldn't be afraid to share a storm cellar with it anyway.
Thanks for any help.
http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake1.jpg http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake2.jpg
:-\)Liz - 25 May 2004 20:52 GMT It reminds me of the Bull/Cornsnakes(though they weren't quite that brightly marked) we had when I lived with my GP's on their farm...they'd slither under the chicken and their roosts and break and suck up the eggs ...Hated those snakes I did....Does this snake hiss?...uggghhh. Me no like Snakes....Dave Y. and his DW Patti on the other hand... love them:-( Yeak!
:-) Liz
> It's me again, with the same question. There is someone on this group who knows > snakes, and I thought I'd ask. Sorry for the OT. But this critter is in my [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake1.jpg > http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake2.jpg Sherry - 25 May 2004 21:05 GMT >It reminds me of the Bull/Cornsnakes(though they weren't quite that brightly >marked) we had when I lived with my GP's on their farm...they'd slither You're right, that's what it was. And I didn't even have to look at its anal plate :)
Sherry
CK - 25 May 2004 20:55 GMT > It's me again, with the same question. There is someone on this group who knows > snakes, and I thought I'd ask. Sorry for the OT. But this critter is in my [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake1.jpg > http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake2.jpg You might want to post your pics in alt.binaries.pictures.animals for the ID help. They do it there all the time for a variety of species. If your ISP doesn't carry abpa, I can post your pics and message there and relay their replies to you if you want.
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Sherry - 25 May 2004 21:04 GMT >You might want to post your pics in alt.binaries.pictures.animals for >the ID help. They do it there all the time for a variety of species. If >your ISP doesn't carry abpa, I can post your pics and message there and >relay their replies to you if you want. Thanks for the offer, Christine. But I found it! With a picture, it looks *exactly* like this one. It is a bullsnake. Now to figure out how to get out of the cellar. I really don't want to kill it now, but I want it out of there. I am leaving the door open today and see if it'll come out on its own, then seal the place where it got in.
Sherry
Sherry
Cheryl - 25 May 2004 23:42 GMT > Now to figure out how to get out of > the cellar. You might have to become Steve Erwin for a few minutes.
> I really don't want to kill it now, but I want it out of > there. I am leaving the door open today and see if it'll come out on > its own, then seal the place where it got in. Do you know where it came in? Yuck! I always dread coming upon a snake while doing yardwork, I couldn't imagine one getting inside!
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Kreisleriana - 25 May 2004 23:46 GMT >> Now to figure out how to get out of >> the cellar. > >You might have to become Steve Erwin for a few minutes. I'm always waiting for the day a croc takes a chunk out of those chunky legs of his. He could feed a croc family for weeks. :P
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Yowie - 25 May 2004 23:46 GMT > >You might want to post your pics in alt.binaries.pictures.animals for > >the ID help. They do it there all the time for a variety of species. If [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > am leaving the door open today and see if it'll come out on its own, then seal > the place where it got in. Are bullsnakes venemous? Here in Oz, with the top 9 most deadly snakes in the world, its a pretty sensible idea to assume *any* snake you stumble across here is quite capable of killing you. In fact, I don't know if Australia has any *non*-venemous snakes.
The only other snake fact I know is that Aussie snake poison is very different to American snake poisons in the way it reacts with humans. Although I cann't remember why now.
Yowie
Jeanne Hedge - 26 May 2004 03:19 GMT >> >You might want to post your pics in alt.binaries.pictures.animals for >> >the ID help. They do it there all the time for a variety of species. If [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >different to American snake poisons in the way it reacts with humans. >Although I cann't remember why now. Bullsnakes are not venomous.
http://snr.unl.edu/herpneb/snake/BullSnake.html
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O J - 26 May 2004 06:55 GMT >Here in Oz, with the top 9 most deadly snakes in >the world, its a pretty sensible idea to assume *any* snake you stumble >across here is quite capable of killing you. In fact, I don't know if >Australia has any *non*-venemous snakes. The thing about Australian snakes that gets to me is that one of the deadliest snakes is known as the "common brown." If it was known as the "uncommon brown that you'll only see in the outback on a bad day" snake, I might not mind the idea so much.
Regards and Purrs, O J
Sherry - 26 May 2004 14:51 GMT > The thing about Australian snakes that gets to me is that one of >the deadliest snakes is known as the "common brown." If it was known >as the "uncommon brown that you'll only see in the outback on a bad >day" snake, I might not mind the idea so much. LOL! Yeah, something about the word "common" being part of the name is just downright disturbing. I was advised by the extension office that there has never been a recorded case of a poisonous snake in this county, although copperheads & rattlesnakes are in the county west of us (where Steve T. lives). I don't think I'd stake my life in that info., though. Sherry
Steve Touchstone - 26 May 2004 23:51 GMT >> The thing about Australian snakes that gets to me is that one of >>the deadliest snakes is known as the "common brown." If it was known [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >the county west of us (where Steve T. lives). I don't think I'd stake my life >in that info., though. Well, I certainly wouldn't put money on there not be any, despite what the record may be. I've told the story before, but back when I was 8 or 9 we had a weekend cabin up at Laguna, east of San Diego. There weren't supposed to any any rattlesnakes because of the elevation, but sure enough I found one.
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jmcquown - 27 May 2004 00:06 GMT >>> The thing about Australian snakes that gets to me is that one of >>> the deadliest snakes is known as the "common brown." [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > weren't supposed to any any rattlesnakes because of the elevation, but > sure enough I found one. Somehow I don't think snakes read the same manual that the employees of those government agencies do ;)
Jill
:-\)Liz - 26 May 2004 01:02 GMT It will be a hassle but if you have one of those "grabbers" you use to get cans off shelves or whatever, that will work pretty good.... I'm assuming... depending how the weather has been these past couple of weeks in your neck of the woods, Mr. Snake went under because of the heat of the day or if you got all the wild weather....went made for dry cover.....:-) Liz
> >You might want to post your pics in alt.binaries.pictures.animals for > >the ID help. They do it there all the time for a variety of species. If [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Sherry Christopher Havlicek - 25 May 2004 21:31 GMT > It's me again, with the same question. There is someone on this group who knows > snakes, and I thought I'd ask. Sorry for the OT. But this critter is in my Sorry for the big snip, but my server is really picky about having less reply text than original text.
Could your visitor be an Eastern Fox Snake? Though the coloration of yours is somewhat lighter, the spot pattern is very close. Here's a link to one site that might help:
http://www.oplin.lib.oh.us/products/snake/fact%20pages/fox_snake/fox_snake.html
It doesn't appear to be a copperhead, which was my initial *brief* impression, having nearly stepped on copperheads a number of times (gotta watch those logs...;) ), but I'm by far no expert.
Hope it helps, but even more so, hope you don't have any tornadoes to force you to share space with it.
Purrs-
Chris, Tripper, Katie, and Hazard
Yowie - 25 May 2004 23:40 GMT > It's me again, with the same question. There is someone on this group who knows > snakes, and I thought I'd ask. Sorry for the OT. But this critter is in my [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake1.jpg > http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake2.jpg Wouldn/t have the foggiest what species it is, but its a very pretty snake, IMHO.
But I still would'nt go into you storm cellar, even if s/he was the snake equivalent of Prince Charming or Cinderella.
Yowie
Magic Mood Jeep? - 26 May 2004 00:57 GMT I took the liberty of posting your urls to abpa with a ping to someone who frequents there who knows his stuff about snakes etc. I'd call him a herpetologist (one who studies snakes, lizards, frogs & such), but I'm not sure if he really is or not. Here's his reply:
The snake is harmless gopher snake (Pituophis catenifer). They're loud hissers and will bite but are completely nonvenomous. The snake is probably in your basement to eat rodents or seek shelter from the heat. I would suggest that you remove the snake by sweeping it in to a large trash can and then dump it outside.
Which snake ID book are you using? I always recommend the Peterson Field Guides.
All venomous snakes in the US except for the coral snake are pit vipers, that is they have a heat sensing pit located between the eye and the nostril.
There are some good gopher snake photos posted here: http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?where-genre=Animal&rel-taxon=contains& where-taxon=&rel-namesoup=like&where-namesoup=gopher+snake&where-lifeform=any&wh ere-collectn=any&where-photographer=any&rel-location=like&where-location=&where- continent=any&where-country=any&where-state=any&where-county=any&rel-kwid=equals &where-kwid=
or
http://tinyurl.com/2equr (I used tinyurl.com, he posted the humongous one above)
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> It's me again, with the same question. There is someone on this group who knows > snakes, and I thought I'd ask. Sorry for the OT. But this critter is in my [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake1.jpg > http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake2.jpg Cheryl - 26 May 2004 01:33 GMT "Magic Mood Jeep?" <nobody@nowhere.net> dumped this in news:54Rsc.115740 $xw3.6829670@attbi_s04 on 25 May 2004:
> The snake is harmless gopher snake (Pituophis catenifer). Cat-enifer? Ok, we can take the OT off this now. :)
 Signature Cheryl
Jeanne Hedge - 26 May 2004 03:25 GMT >"Magic Mood Jeep©" <nobody@nowhere.net> dumped this in news:54Rsc.115740 >$xw3.6829670@attbi_s04 on 25 May 2004: > >> The snake is harmless gopher snake (Pituophis catenifer). > >Cat-enifer? Ok, we can take the OT off this now. :) Earlier someone thought the snake picture was a bull snake. I Googled "bull snake", and came up with this link:
http://snr.unl.edu/herpneb/snake/BullSnake.html
It turns out that a bullsnake is also Pituophis catenifer!
According to info at
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/reptiles/snakes/Bullsnake.shtml
Bull Snakes are also known as Gopher Snakes (in western North America) and Pine Snakes (in eastern North America).
Three names for one "cat", doesn't that just figure? ^_^
Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha
http://www.jhedge.com
Sherry - 26 May 2004 04:54 GMT >I took the liberty of posting your urls to abpa with a ping to someone who >frequents there who knows his stuff about snakes etc. I'd call him a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?where-genre=Animal&rel-taxon=contains& where-taxon=&rel-namesoup=like&where-namesoup=gopher+snake&where-li feform=any&where-collectn=any&where-photographer=any&rel-location=like&whe re-location=&where-continent
>=any&where-country=any&where-state=any&where-county=any&rel-kwid=equals&where-kwid= Thanks! It's the last picture. Also called abullsnake.I didn't know they were also called gopher snakes. The book I was using was some handy-dandy Boy Scout issue we still had left over from the BSA days. Pretty worthless. I found lots better info. on the internet. Sweeping it into a trash can sounds like a better plan than I had.
Sherry
John F. Eldredge - 26 May 2004 17:38 GMT On Tue, 25 May 2004 23:57:53 GMT, "Magic Mood Jeep©" <nobody@nowhere.net> wrote:
>All venomous snakes in the US except for the coral snake are pit >vipers, that is they have a heat sensing pit located between the >eye and the nostril. One way to tell the American pit vipers from a greater distance is that they all have triangular heads, with the width of the back of the head noticeably greater than that of the neck. As far as coral snakes are concerned, remember the phrase, "Red next to yellow kills a fellow". The red and yellow stripes on a coral snake adjoin each other. There are several nonpoisonous species with similiar colors, but with a band of another color between the red and yellow bands.
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Gracecat - 27 May 2004 04:14 GMT Added note about coral snakes... That bit about how they can only bite certain areas of the human body because they can't fit their mouth around (like the skin between thumb and forefinger)... bullhockey. Their fangs are only a quarter inch long if I'm not mistaken, maybe an eighth. They can bite bare skin, but typically they're not able to penetrate jeans or shoes. Also, if I recall my snake trivia a bit more, their fangs don't operate on a "hydraulic system". They don't inject venom like a rattlesnake. The coral only can push a third-ish amount of the venom they hold while a rattlesnake can push the entire amount.
yeah.... subject for debate though... I may be wrong Grace
> I took the liberty of posting your urls to abpa with a ping to someone who > frequents there who knows his stuff about snakes etc. I'd call him a [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > There are some good gopher snake photos posted here: http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?where-genre=Animal&rel-taxon=conta ins&where-taxon=&rel-namesoup=like&where-namesoup=gopher+snake&where-lifefor m=any&where-collectn=any&where-photographer=any&rel-location=like&where-loca tion=&where-continent=any&where-country=any&where-state=any&where-county=any &rel-kwid=equals&where-kwid=
> or > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake1.jpg > > http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake2.jpg David Yehudah - 26 May 2004 04:10 GMT Hi, Sherry That is a bull snake, aka gopher snake and pine snake. It is not venomous and, although it puts up a terrific threat display, hissing loudly and striking furiously, it is unlikely he will actually bite you. I have had them strike AT me and miss and even butt me with their noses. They get up to eight feet long and are quite strong. They make great pets. If you have venomous snakes in your area, encourage him to hang around. He will eat most venomous snakes, especially rattlesnakes. If I were nearby, I would cheerfully take him off your hands. I had an eight-footer a few years ago named Attila. I posted a couple of anecdotes about him and how he interacted with our menage. Cheers, Dave
> It's me again, with the same question. There is someone on this group who knows > snakes, and I thought I'd ask. Sorry for the OT. But this critter is in my [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake1.jpg > http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake2.jpg
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Sherry - 26 May 2004 05:01 GMT >Hi, Sherry > That is a bull snake, aka gopher snake and pine snake. It is not [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Cheers, >Dave Eight feet. EIGHT FEET. <boggle> This one is probably 3.5 feet. We do have gophers, bad. I'm not killing it but I'm not touching it either. But I have a plan. I'm going down there tomorrow and aggravate it till it comes out on its own. Sort of Steve Irwin style. Or maybe I can herd it out with a broom.
Sherry
Marina - 26 May 2004 05:10 GMT > Eight feet. EIGHT FEET. <boggle> This one is probably 3.5 feet. > We do have gophers, bad. I'm not killing it but I'm not touching it either. But > I have a plan. I'm going down there tomorrow and aggravate it till it comes out > on its own. Sort of Steve Irwin style. > Or maybe I can herd it out with a broom. Herding snakes. Sounds almost as good as herding cats. ;o) Purrs for the very best of luck, Sherry. I hope you can get rid of your unwelcome visitor.
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LAL - 26 May 2004 18:18 GMT Greetings...
Well, at least you don't have to worry about a rodent problem in your cellar. Let us know what you eventually end up doing with the guy. Good luck! lal
> Hi, Sherry > That is a bull snake, aka gopher snake and pine snake. It is not [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake1.jpg > > http://members.aol.com/greywolf17/snake2.jpg
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