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Ear-notching!

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Zorin the Lynx - 15 May 2004 16:17 GMT
Hey everyone.. this is just a small rant.

It turns out that some cat rescue groups around here cut a notch out of
the tip of a kitty's ear to show the he or she has been neutered or
spayed. While I'm all for neutering and spaying to reduce population, is
this mutilation really necessary? I look at my kitty, with his pristine
tufted eartips, and I can't imagine the horror of snipping any part of
his ears off as a marker. It would make him look unbalanced, and he
would lose one of those adorable eartufts that got him the name "Lynxie"!

I just wanted to find out if this practice is common across the country,
and if anyone feels as negatively about it as I do. There has to be an
alternate, non-disfiguring method of marking a kitty as neutered, no?

Feeling sorry for the kitties,
-Zorin
Annie Wxill - 15 May 2004 16:40 GMT
> Hey everyone.. this is just a small rant.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Feeling sorry for the kitties,
> -Zorin

If the cat is part of a feral colony, a lot of the cats probably look alike.
When a cat with an ear notch is trapped, it is easily identified as having
been spayed or neutered and saved an unnecessary, stressful, and expensive
for the rescuer, trip to a vet. I love those little kitty ears, too, and
wish there were some other way.  I suppose if there is an alternate. highly
visible, but not disfiguring way to identify those cats, the rescuers would
be using it.
Annie
jmcquown - 15 May 2004 17:25 GMT
>> Hey everyone.. this is just a small rant.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> it.
> Annie

I would think a tiny little tatoo inside the ear would do just as well.

Jill
dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers - 15 May 2004 17:50 GMT
>I would think a tiny little tatoo inside the ear would do just as well.
>
>Jill

The downside of that in relation to ferals is that you'd have to handle the
animal to be able to see if it's tattooed. Many a feral can't (or won't) be
handled. That may involve an otherwise unnecessary sedation to handle the
animal - and that too carries risks. The advantage of the earclip is that it's
*obvious* and if an already speyed/neutered animal is in a trap, it can be
released without any handling if obviously identified as previously
speyed/neutered, thus avoiding sedation in order to check. Plus - tattoos fade
over time whereas the earclip doesn't.
As the clip of the ear is done when the animal is under anaesthethic for
speying/neutering, it's not an "extra" procedure as such. Personally, I don't
see it as a mutilation, if it's something that genuinely adis those who are
working with ferals to easily identify whihc cats in a colony have been
speyed/neutered already.

Just my £0.02, and anyone can feel free to disagree :-)

Cheers, helen s

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~*Connie*~ - 15 May 2004 17:51 GMT
> >> It turns out that some cat rescue groups around here cut a notch out
> >> of the tip of a kitty's ear to show the he or she has been neutered
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Jill

Most cats are too feral to look inside an ear once you catch them.. so you
would have to sedate them to find out if they had the tattoo, and once
you've done that, you might as well look under the tail or shave the belly
to see if they have done it, and that is not only a waste of anesthesia, its
not good for the cats.

Cats do not suffer when their ears are cut.  My own cat got into a cat fight
once and her ear was ripped, and she barely noticed it.  It was tougher on
me than on her.
Don & Lisa - 15 May 2004 18:18 GMT
I trap ferals to take to a low cost spay/neuter clinic here, they notch all
ferals. I have no problem with that at all. The females would have to be
operated on to see that they have already been done. I would hate for them
to go through that unnecessarily. Most of the males had ripped up ears
already from fighting. Now they have one more notch, but don't fight enough
to get anymore. Two of my ferals will let me pet them, another will let me
pet him in a month or so, and yet another that would run at even a sight of
a person, has been about 20 feet from me.
Head butts to all, Lisa.

> > >> It turns out that some cat rescue groups around here cut a notch out
> > >> of the tip of a kitty's ear to show the he or she has been neutered
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> once and her ear was ripped, and she barely noticed it.  It was tougher on
> me than on her.
Marina - 15 May 2004 20:19 GMT
> I trap ferals to take to a low cost spay/neuter clinic here, they notch all
> ferals. I have no problem with that at all. The females would have to be
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> pet him in a month or so, and yet another that would run at even a sight of
> a person, has been about 20 feet from me.

I was thinking that unneutered males probably have a lot of notches in their
ears anyway from all the fights. Can the people see which are from fights
and which are man-made? Nikki has a notch in her ear that I don't know where
it came from. I came home one day from work and she had a little dried blood
on the ear, and I cleaned it off and discovered that a small bit was
missing. Must have been Frank, though I'm surprised, because he's so gentle
with her usually. It's usually Frank who calls off a playfight by wailing
pitifully. Maybe Nikki wouldn't back down that time, so he had to show her
that he is, in fact, the bigger and stronger cat. Anyway, the notch healed
at once and doesn't seem to bother her in the least. And Frank and Nikki
still cuddle up together.

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Marina, Frank and Nikki
Email marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi
Pics at http://uk.f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/frankiennikki

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers - 15 May 2004 20:20 GMT
>I was thinking that unneutered males probably have a lot of notches in their
>ears anyway from all the fights. Can the people see which are from fights
>and which are man-made?

The ones I've seen are where the entire top of the ear (a large tip, not the
entire ear flap) is removed - it's *very* obvious it's not the result of a
fight.

Cheers, helen s

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Karen Chuplis - 15 May 2004 20:44 GMT
in article 20040515152042.13668.00000773@mb-m26.aol.com,
dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers at wafflycathcs@aol.comcomcom wrote on
5/15/04 2:20 PM:

>> I was thinking that unneutered males probably have a lot of notches in their
>> ears anyway from all the fights. Can the people see which are from fights
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> --Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

Yup
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 15 May 2004 20:20 GMT
> Most of the males had ripped up ears
> already from fighting. Now they have one more notch

One question: how can you tell the difference between a tear from a fight
and a notch from the vet? I'm sure that some fight tears must look similar.

Joyce
Don & Lisa - 15 May 2004 21:46 GMT
The first feral I took, they cut the tip off, the other ones, they made a
slit in the side. Very straight and precise. I asked why the change, they
said that many older toms had the tip taken off in fights, and the slit
looked more artificial, easier not to mistake.
Lisa.

>  > Most of the males had ripped up ears
>  > already from fighting. Now they have one more notch
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Joyce
Cheryl - 17 May 2004 00:21 GMT
"Don & Lisa" <ofbrat@flash.n> dumped this in  news:Xkvpc.18754$iR3.8830
@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com on 15 May 2004:

> The first feral I took, they cut the tip off, the other ones, they made a
> slit in the side. Very straight and precise. I asked why the change, they
> said that many older toms had the tip taken off in fights, and the slit
> looked more artificial, easier not to mistake.
> Lisa.

Plus with toms, its easier to tell if they've been neutered.

Signature

Cheryl

m. L. Briggs - 15 May 2004 18:02 GMT
>>> Hey everyone.. this is just a small rant.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>Jill

can't see a tatoo from a distance.  I understand this is a method of
identifying ferals who have been neutered.
Steve Touchstone - 15 May 2004 18:30 GMT
>> If the cat is part of a feral colony, a lot of the cats probably look
>> alike. When a cat with an ear notch is trapped, it is easily
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Jill

Might be a lot less stressfull for the cat to have an ear notched in
the long run, though. The notched ear could easily be seen when the
cat is trapped, and it could be released without any handling. I
imagine they'd have to drag the cat out and restrain it to see a
tattoo, which is not easy with a feral wildcat convinced you mean it
harm. I imagine the feeders in a trap, neuter and release program
could put out food, then sit back with binoculars and see if there are
any new unneutered additions to the colony, avoiding the trap
altogether.

Can't help but wish there was a some other way, though.
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Karen Chuplis - 15 May 2004 19:08 GMT
>>> If the cat is part of a feral colony, a lot of the cats probably look
>>> alike. When a cat with an ear notch is trapped, it is easily
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Can't help but wish there was a some other way, though.

Who is it here that has a feral that got a BIG notch. I think it was this
group. It seems the most expedient way to be able to identify a cat that
does not need to be put under again if it gets trapped. It is very common if
not the international signal of a feral neuter/spay.
Cheryl - 17 May 2004 00:25 GMT
>>>> If the cat is part of a feral colony, a lot of the cats probably
>>>> look alike. When a cat with an ear notch is trapped, it is easily
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> cat that does not need to be put under again if it gets trapped. It is
> very common if not the international signal of a feral neuter/spay.

Here's Bonnie's eartip
http://community.webshots.com/photo/75552731/85148094ZMNdzs
This one shows it as well
http://community.webshots.com/photo/75552731/112572463UHnMUk

Signature

Cheryl

Marina - 17 May 2004 03:52 GMT
> Here's Bonnie's eartip
> http://community.webshots.com/photo/75552731/85148094ZMNdzs
> This one shows it as well
> http://community.webshots.com/photo/75552731/112572463UHnMUk

Awww. Apart from the missing eartip there, she looks so happy and healthy.
Such a shiny coat and contented eyes. You've done well, Cheryl!

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Marina, Frank and Nikki
Email marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi
Pics at http://uk.f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/frankiennikki

Cheryl - 18 May 2004 00:12 GMT
>> Here's Bonnie's eartip
>> http://community.webshots.com/photo/75552731/85148094ZMNdzs
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> healthy. Such a shiny coat and contented eyes. You've done well,
> Cheryl!

Thanks Marina. I had tons of help. :)

Signature

Cheryl

jmcquown - 15 May 2004 21:40 GMT
>>> If the cat is part of a feral colony, a lot of the cats probably
>>> look alike. When a cat with an ear notch is trapped, it is easily
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Can't help but wish there was a some other way, though.

How about make 'em wear bright orange vests? :o)
dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers - 15 May 2004 21:42 GMT
>How about make 'em wear bright orange vests? :o)

Would have to be bright green. Orange and you'd never tell with a ginger cat
;-)

Cheers, helen s

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moonglow minnow - 15 May 2004 21:49 GMT
jmcquown howled at the moon, then scrawled thusly upon the aether:

[...]

>> way.  I suppose if there is an alternate. highly visible, but not
>> disfiguring way to identify those cats, the rescuers would be using
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Jill

Eek! Nonononono. A tattoo inside a cat's ear, besides being very very
very painful (all those nerves), would risk even worse disfigurement
(think damage to the ear's support structures) than a notch in the ear.
This is why ID tattoos (like those common in show rabbits) are *never*
put in the ears of dogs or cats... instead, they're put on their belly
skin (or nowhere at all, now that we have microchipping).

One of my babies has a notch (not from a rescue group, from a fight he
got into) in his left ear from his "big bad tomcat" days, and he's really
not any less handsome or cuddly for it. I *do* hope that the rescuers are
taking precautions against infection, though.

Maeve
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EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) - 15 May 2004 22:59 GMT
> >> Hey everyone.. this is just a small rant.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> I would think a tiny little tatoo inside the ear would do just as well.

That'd depend upon what color the cat is, wouldn't it?  

> Jill
Yowie - 15 May 2004 23:37 GMT
> > Hey everyone.. this is just a small rant.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> visible, but not disfiguring way to identify those cats, the rescuers would
> be using it.

Its cheap, quick and effective, and doesn't affect the cat's ability to
survive as a feral (if you've seen any old tomcats around, you'll know they
can survive quite well with disfigured ears!)

Possibly not the absolute *best* way of distinguishing which cats have been
desexed, but its probably the most *effecient*, overall.

But yes, I love kitty ears too.

Yowie
Jo Firey - 15 May 2004 19:16 GMT
It is a common practice when trying to manage a feral population.  It saves
having the same animal captured and hauled in to the vet to be fixed
numerous times.

Jo
> Hey everyone.. this is just a small rant.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Feeling sorry for the kitties,
> -Zorin
Hopitus2 - 15 May 2004 20:07 GMT
Aside 411 on notching: that's how lobster fishermen (under federal mandate
to do so) identify females w/egg sacs - big notch in tail - before throwing
them back into water, as it is illegal to include them in their catch. Now a
lobster is not a cat for sure but one thing applies to both: easy sight
identity for one reason or another w/o messing with the critter physically.
Fast and efficient but briefly brutal.

: It is a common practice when trying to manage a feral population.  It saves
: having the same animal captured and hauled in to the vet to be fixed
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
: > Feeling sorry for the kitties,
: > -Zorin
Jeanette - 15 May 2004 23:50 GMT
> : Jo
> : > Hey everyone.. this is just a small rant.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> : > Feeling sorry for the kitties,
> : > -Zorin

If you can come up with a method that will not put a feral cat at risk by
reducing it's fitness to hunt, escape predators, and get along with the rest
of the colony, that is cheap enough to be within the budget of an
organisation funded and run by unpaid volunteers, is permanent, and can be
checked without actually needing to re-trap the cat, then please tell me
about it.

Jeanette
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) - 15 May 2004 22:57 GMT
> Hey everyone.. this is just a small rant.
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> and if anyone feels as negatively about it as I do. There has to be an
> alternate, non-disfiguring method of marking a kitty as neutered, no?

Since most unneutered males get into fights, and one of the most common
resulting scars is a notched ear, how can they be sure whether it's a
battle scar or a vet's notch-mark?  (Short of examining the cat, which I
gather the notching is supposed to make unnecessary?)  I don't suppose
it's any more painful than humans having their ears pierced, and
probably no more noticeable unless you're looking for it, but there must
be a mnore reliable means of identification.
Jo Firey - 16 May 2004 03:31 GMT
> > Hey everyone.. this is just a small rant.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> probably no more noticeable unless you're looking for it, but there must
> be a mnore reliable means of identification.

Not one that is reliable with out having to retrap the cat.  A surgical
notch would usually be easy to distinguish from a ragged fight tear.

Jo
Cheryl - 17 May 2004 00:18 GMT
> Hey everyone.. this is just a small rant.
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Feeling sorry for the kitties,
> -Zorin

My Bonnie is ear-tipped. She never indicated that it hurt while healing,
but then again, she was spayed at the same time, and the sutures they
use for spaying have some pain killer in them. FWIW, I never saw any
blood on her ear. In our area, only ferals are tipped, and when Bonnie
was trapped I had no idea what to do with her, and never imagined I'd be
keeping her.

Signature

Cheryl

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) - 19 May 2004 04:39 GMT
> > Hey everyone.. this is just a small rant.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> was trapped I had no idea what to do with her, and never imagined I'd be
> keeping her.

FWIW, many cats in ancient Egypt used to wear earrings - I don't imagine
the tissue of a cat's ears is any more sensitive to pain than that of
ours, it's just their hearing that's keener.
Flippy - 17 May 2004 05:22 GMT
> Hey everyone.. this is just a small rant.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Feeling sorry for the kitties,
> -Zorin

We have our cats tattooed. Highly visible, yet not disfiguring.

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Flippy in Melbourne, Australia.
My Cats: http://www.flippyscatpage.com

 
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