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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / April 2004OT; question for the Canadians here
I was wondering how the Canadians themselves think about the killing of 350000 young seals, and if and how they campaign against it. Nanny Iguess how we feel about them saying here that they should cull 20-000 koala bears, definately not good Jean.P. > I was wondering how the Canadians themselves think about the killing of > 350000 young seals, and if and how they campaign against it. > > Nanny >Iguess how we feel about them saying here that they should cull 20-000 >koala bears, definately not good > Jean.P. Well, don't you have koala bears crawling everywhere, in your houses, in your bathrooms and basements, under your car hoods? ;) (That I would actually like to see) Theresa alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/ Single-mindedness is all very well in cows or baboons; in an animal claiming to belong to the same species as Shakespeare it is simply disgraceful. (Aldous Huxley) Dont tell me you have seals crawling about your houses andin your cars? oh well perhaps they'relooking for the bathtub, cheers Jean.P. > >Iguess how we feel about them saying here that they should cull 20-000 > >koala bears, definately not good [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > claiming to belong to the same species as Shakespeare it is simply disgraceful. > (Aldous Huxley) > Iguess how we feel about them saying here that they should cull 20-000 > koala bears, definately not good > Jean.P. > > I was wondering how the Canadians themselves think about the killing of > > 350000 young seals, and if and how they campaign against it. I don't know much about the seal population at all. However, with koalas, kangaroos, cats, horses, cockatoos, moose or whatever, I don't have any particular objection to their killing/culling providing that a) its necessary b) they aren't endangered c) other alternatives are considered and this particular method is really the only option, and d) its done in a merciful and human way. I eat meat and use leather products. I don't like thinking where those products come from, but I would be highly hypocritical of me to condemn the killing of one type of animal when I clearly support the killing of others (cows, sheep, pigs, chicken and a variety of seafood). That being said however, I refuse to wear fur, and the thought of animals suffering still makes me sick. I try to buy "humane" forms of meat an animal products when available and condemn various barabaric practices that cause unecessary suffering to any creature. In this regard, I have no guilt regarding having a cat in Australia as I am a resposible owner and know its not my cat (or his progeny) that are killing off our wildlife. So as to seal hunting, if the seals are plentiful and/or causing problems and are treated humanely, I can't (as much as it grieves me) condemn the practice outright. That there are people out there vain enough to want to wear baby seal fur and people greedy enough to take the pelts with no regard to the suffering of the animals is what really makes me choke. Otherwise the activity is as immoral as an abbotoir, no more, no less. IMHO. I still don't like thinking about it, though. Yowie (non-practicing vegetarian) > So as to seal hunting, if the seals are plentiful and/or causing problems > and are treated humanely, I can't (as much as it grieves me) condemn the > practice outright. That there are people out there vain enough to want to > wear baby seal fur and people greedy enough to take the pelts with no regard > to the suffering of the animals is what really makes me choke. Otherwise the > activity is as immoral as an abbotoir, no more, no less. IMHO. I guarantee you nobody would go killing baby seals if their furs weren't valuable.  SignatureVictor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com > I guarantee you nobody would go killing baby seals if their furs weren't > valuable. You'd be wrong. People who love flipper pie killed them for their meat during the years the bottom fell out of the fur market. SignatureCheryl > You'd be wrong. People who love flipper pie killed them for their meat > during the years the bottom fell out of the fur market. 300,000 baby seals would make a heck of a lot of pie. I wonder why the carcasses are left to rot on the snow then if the pie is so good? SignatureVictor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com > 300,000 baby seals would make a heck of a lot of pie. I wonder why the > carcasses are left to rot on the snow then if the pie is so good? You weren't talking about the entire quota for this year. You said, IIRC, that the hunt would not exist if the fur wasn't valuable. That is simply not the case, and hasn't been the case in the recent past when the fur wasn't valuable or in demand. The size of the hunt - cull, really - this year is driven neither by fashion nor by food, but by a rather desperate attempt to try to get the wildlife populations back into some kind of balance, following the collapse of most of the cod populations. It is a shame that more of the meat can't be sold in more populous areas. It is available frozen and canned, so shipping wouldn't be a problem. But the demand doesn't exist outside remote low-population northern regions. SignatureCheryl Not too happy about it. As far as I knew these practices had stopped. fuga > I was wondering how the Canadians themselves think about the killing of > 350000 young seals, and if and how they campaign against it. As I've said before, I support it, I see it as exactly the same thing, from the moral and environmental viewpoint, as shooting moose or deer or killing chickens or cows (by various methods, not usually shooting). I realize some people are opposed to killing moose, cows, etc., too, and express their beliefs in a quite admirable and consistent way by living a vegan lifestyle. I can't do that; I feel that I'd be the most appalling hypocrite if I complained about the seal hunt while having sausage and eggs at breakfast and wearing my leather shoes. I also do not believe the end justifies the means, and have therefore always had, umm, to put it politely, extreme difficulty with the misleading ad campaigns and other tactics used by the organizations most associated with opposition to the seal hunt. SignatureCheryl > I was wondering how the Canadians themselves think about the killing > of 350000 young seals, and if and how they campaign against it. > > Nanny Well, being canadian myself, as soon as i read that it was still going on (i thought it wasn't) I immediately wrote a letter of protest to the minister of fisheries. I can't stop buying canadian cause i live here and i'd starve, but i did what i can.. Kristy Signature(( /\ /\ )) /@ @\ (( \ _* _/<\\\\\\> / * \ / \ /\ / \ // / \ // | | | | | |/ # # # # *Bomber* There are a lot of transplanted Canadians down here in perpetual nirvana, some of whom I work with. The ones I've brought up the subject with pretty much look @ seal-hunting as just another way their homeland makes money, along with drug sales to US, and maintain that the head-bashing ensures the seals feeling no pain and a quick death. They maintain the seal-fur industry has as powerful a lobby as our (ahem) tobacco and oil cartels with their gov't, and that this industry will not abandon revising their laws to favor such enterprise. This is by no means MY opinion of the whole thing.....how the h*** would I know anything about this? It's just what I've been told by Canadian friends; the other side of their "seal-bashing" coin...... : > I was wondering how the Canadians themselves think about the killing : > of 350000 young seals, and if and how they campaign against it. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] : : Kristy > I was wondering how the Canadians themselves think about the killing of > 350000 young seals, and if and how they campaign against it. > Nanny Interestingly, here's a reply to your question not from here in Canada, but from Australia: http://tinyurl.com/3549k And for a Canadian perspective, here's an article in today's Toronto Globe and Mail which bills itself as "Canada's national newspaper": http://tinyurl.com/24cvo > http://tinyurl.com/3549k A quote form this article: "I've observed the Canadian seal hunt each year for the past five years," said Rebecca Aldworth of the International Fund for Animal Welfare. "This year we saw terrible cruelty, and almost no government monitoring of the hunt. "Just metres away from us, conscious seal pups were sliced open. They were dragged across the ice with boathooks. Injured seals were left to die in stockpiles of carcasses." If those accounts are true, I cannot possibly believe anybody would support this practice. Skinning a live seal pup is a very cruel thing to do. > http://tinyurl.com/24cvo A quote from this one: Minister of Natural Resources John Efford said the advertisement is wrong to suggest that the hunt allows the killing of "baby seals." "It's not misleading, it's absolutely wrong," Mr. Efford said. "It can't be any more wrong to say we're killing baby seals when we're not." But later on the same article says: Hunters must now wait at least 12 days after the birth of a pup when they begin shedding their white coats before they can be killed. So a 12 day old seal is not a baby seal? SignatureVictor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com > If those accounts are true, I cannot possibly believe anybody would > support this practice. Skinning a live seal pup is a very cruel thing to do. And I simply don't believe her account, especially since she has almost certainly not witnessed the hunt herself. Was it that article or another where the activists were complaining that they couldn't get access to the hunt? They need to make up their minds. It is just barely possible, to be rather graphic about it, that earlier activists mistook a dead, although moving because of either the skinning or final reflex action, seal for a live one. Hunters point out the practical difficulties of skinning living creatures. Think about it. > So a 12 day old seal is not a baby seal? Not under current legislation. Is it somehow worse to kill a young animal than an older one? I can understand, although I do not agree, someone opposed to killing *all* animals. I don't understand making a distinction based on age. Why on earth should it be OK to kill a sheep, but not OK to kill a lamb? SignatureCheryl Cheryl Perkins had something important to tell us on Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:17:00 +0000 (UTC): >Not under current legislation. Is it somehow worse to kill a young animal >than an older one? I can understand, although I do not agree, someone >opposed to killing *all* animals. I don't understand making a distinction >based on age. Why on earth should it be OK to kill a sheep, but not OK to >kill a lamb? The idea of seal hunting revolts me utterly, for one reason. They're killing them for their SKIN! I wouldn't care what animal it was they were hunting - they are NOT killed 'humanely' and they're being hunted for a totally selfish wasteful purpose. I don't care how many million of them there are out there. Seal fur is not an essential item in anyone's wardrobe. You won't die if you don't have a sealskin jacket, but an awful lot of poor little seals died to make it. Wearing 'real' furs is a sign of ostentatious consumerism and gross selfishness. The only exception to this is the Inuit culture where people are still following traditional styles of life - they really NEED the fur for survival because of the climate they live in and traditionally they had a lot more respect for the animals that they depended on. They realised that if they killed all the seal cubs there wouldn't be any more - the modern attitude seems to be to regard any 'natural' material - animals, plants - as entirely renewable and consumable. Nobody stops to think about how many years/decades/centuries it's going to take to replace the things they have destroyed. It's just a tree and a new one will grow sooner or later... It's 'just' a seal and there are too many of them... How about a few examples? It's 'just' a passenger pigeon - there are billions of them, and they make a nice pie so let's kill it... It's 'just' a stupid dodo - we need to eat so let's eat it... It's 'just' a Tasmanian Tiger - it's vermin, so let's kill it... It's 'just' a bison - look at the size of the herd, we'd better start culling before they stomp us to death!... should I go on? Mankind is so utterly selfish sometimes that it makes me SICK. BTW I do not eat lobster, seafood, veal, battery-farmed chicken or any other 'tanked' animal either - I am repulsed by the idea of the poor animals being trussed up and kept alive in a tiny little tank purely for human convenience. There's a difference between farming an animal and killing it humanely when the time comes, and just using them up. Nature was NOT put there for our convenience and we are NOT the masters of the Universe. I'm sorry for the lecture but this is something I feel extremely strongly about... nobody ever realises how shortsighted they're being until it's too late, and even then hardly anyone seems to care. One day the only living creatures left on the planet will be us and the cockroaches, because we'll have killed everything else out of pure selfishness, if we don't exterminate ourselves first. SignatureKaren AKA Kajikit Here kitty kitty kitty... visit http://www.catslaves.org! Come and visit my part of the web: Kajikit's Corner: http://www.kajikitscorner.com Allergyfree Eating Recipe Swap: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Allergyfree_Eating Ample Aussies Mailing List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ampleaussies/ You are entirely entitled to have and act on your opinion. > The idea of seal hunting revolts me utterly, for one reason. They're > killing them for their SKIN! And meat. Until the recent renewed fashion interest in fur occurred, that's what kept the hunt going. > only exception to this is the Inuit culture where people are still > following traditional styles of life - they really NEED the fur for > survival because of the climate they live in and traditionally they > had a lot more respect for the animals that they depended on. Ummm, I don't know of any Inuit who still follow a totally traditional lifestyle, although many follow a modified version including hunting. What about the traditional lifestyle of people of European ancestry? And before you write about Native respect for animals, read: http://www.cbc.ca/stories/print/2004/04/07/canada/caribou040407 People are people, whatever the colour of their skin, lifestyle or ancestry. Probably half of that endangered herd was shot and left to rot. Like I said, you have every right to hold and act on your opinions, but I thought I'd point out a couple things you might want to consider. SignatureCheryl |
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