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Giving Fluids at Home

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Jeanne Hedge - 05 Feb 2004 12:42 GMT
Last year TED said Natasha (who will be 17 in April) was having kidney
trouble, but was given an all-clear 3 months ago as all urine/blood
values were within spec. Natasha had a check-up yesterday, and the BUN
and Creatinin values from the blood test were slightly out of spec
high again.

So... Natasha has been put back on Hill's K/D (which she'd been taken
off of in October because she'd refused to eat it any longer), and I
have to give her 100-150ml fluids by IV every day for the next week
(then take her back to see how things are).

It seems Tasha just doesn't drink enough water. Given that she has
always "drank" by sticking her feet into the water dish and then
licking off her feet, I can't imagine why she isn't getting enough
water into her system. <g>

TED showed me how to do the IV, and it seems simple enough (and
fortunately Tasha is not a wiggly cat), but there are always handy
tips about things to do and things to avoid. Does anyone have any
helpful hints for doing fluid by IV at home?

Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha

http://www.jhedge.com
Marina - 05 Feb 2004 14:05 GMT
> TED showed me how to do the IV, and it seems simple enough (and
> fortunately Tasha is not a wiggly cat), but there are always handy
> tips about things to do and things to avoid. Does anyone have any
> helpful hints for doing fluid by IV at home?

I don't have any tips, but we are sending lots of purrs and soothing vibes
for the daily IVs.

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fuga  =^o^= - 05 Feb 2004 14:21 GMT
Hi Jeanne,

Fuga get fluids once a week or when we sense that he is dehydrated.  We have
a plant hook in our ceiling that is located over one of the desks in our
office from which we hang the bag of fluids.  We had a home visit with the
vet for giving fluids and we learnt that the higher the fluids are the
quicker they flow.  On my desk we place Fuga's donut bed.  I put a heating
pad inside his bed so that he doesn't catch a chill from the fluids.  Once
we have the fluids set up, air bubbles removed, and needle replaced with put
fuga in the bed and give him fluids.  As a reward for the fluids, we give
him some regular science diet (turkey or chicken & liver).  Fuga still hates
the fluids but he knows he will get treats and lots of pets while the fluid
is being injected in him.

The plant hook on the ceiling was left from the previous tenant and the vet
noticed it and said to use it.  Now that we have been using it, I think I
would recommend it to everyone it is much easier than trying to hang it off
the door.

There is a K/D minced chicken food available in Canada and the US that is
much more palatable than the Hills K/D that is worth trying.  As well there
is a food called g/d which is for beginning stages of renal failure.  I
rotate fuga's diet between these two foods, sometimes I even mix them
together to give him variety.  If I find he's getting finicky then I will
add a little bit of regular science diet in with this food because it's more
important that they eat.

http://www.felinecrf.org/giving_sub-qs_giving_set.htm

Here's a great link on food values.
http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm  The thing that is most
important is feeding cats food low in phosphorous, some think protein values
need to be lower and some don't -- there is mixed opinions on that.

We went out and bought a drinkwell fountain when Fuga was diagnosed to
stimulate him to drink more water.

Hope this makes sense. I hate this kidney failure.

hugs,

Fuga
lrulan - 05 Feb 2004 16:16 GMT
along this thread...how do you put the intravenous needle into the cat? Does
it just go through the skin? This isn't intravenous then, is it? It's just
like an injection. I can't imagine Jazz would ever let me do this to him, he
would chomp my arm off. :(
Jazz's mama

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> Hi Jeanne,
>
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
> Fuga
Magic Mood Jeep? - 05 Feb 2004 17:30 GMT
The fluids are the same as the ones used in IV's (a sterile saline
solution), but this just goes under the skin.  We had to do this daily for
eight months for a CRF kitty (Ivy, who finally succumbed), and the fluid
forms a 'pocket' under the skin that is absorbed into the body. We used to
call it "Ivy's water boobie" because, even though we 'injected' it on her
back, it would flow around to her chest/stomach area before it got absorbed.

And it helps to warm the IV solution in a bowl (or sink or whatever) of warm
water until it is just warmer than luke-warm on your skin (remember that
cats' body temperatures are higher than humans') - that way the kitty
doesn't get a chill from the cold solution.

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> along this thread...how do you put the intravenous needle into the cat? Does
> it just go through the skin? This isn't intravenous then, is it? It's just
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
> >
> > Fuga
Dan M - 05 Feb 2004 18:02 GMT
> along this thread...how do you put the intravenous needle into the cat? Does
> it just go through the skin? This isn't intravenous then, is it? It's just
> like an injection. I can't imagine Jazz would ever let me do this to him, he
> would chomp my arm off. :(
> Jazz's mama

It's actually done subcutaneously. Just pull up some loose skin from over
the shoulders, poke there, and turn on the fluid flow. Not too hard once
you get a little practice.

Dan
Jeanne Hedge - 05 Feb 2004 22:55 GMT
>> along this thread...how do you put the intravenous needle into the cat? Does
>> it just go through the skin? This isn't intravenous then, is it? It's just
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>the shoulders, poke there, and turn on the fluid flow. Not too hard once
>you get a little practice.

Yes, that's how TED showed me to do it - pinch up the loose skin
between her shoulders, and then stick the needle into the skin between
my fingers (length-ways rather than cross-ways)

I was reluctant to do it, but TED said "we have a diabetic cat at
home, and if my husband can learn to give her shots, you can learn to
do this!" ^_^

Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha

http://www.jhedge.com
Christine Burel - 05 Feb 2004 17:42 GMT
Jeanne, I've given lots of fluids in my day (almost 7 years daily between 2
cats) and I found that if I hung the bag on a coathanger and hung the
coathanger over the shower rod in the bathroom I could get a good flow rate
for the fluids.  The higher the bag, the quicker the flow rate and the
sooner they're done with their dose.  I liked giving the fluids in the
bathroom because I could close the door off from the other kitties in the
household.  Hope this helps.
Christine
> Hi Jeanne,
>
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
> Fuga
Ginger-lyn Summer - 05 Feb 2004 16:59 GMT
>Last year TED said Natasha (who will be 17 in April) was having kidney
>trouble, but was given an all-clear 3 months ago as all urine/blood
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
>http://www.jhedge.com

Jeanne, sorry to hear Natasha needs the fluids.  Fuga gave you great
advice already.  I would only add that, at first, accept that you
won't do it perfectly, but that's okay.  And always remember to turn
off the little valve that lets the fluids flow before removing the
needle (she said from experience) -- lol!  I'm sure you'll do just
fine.  Purrs to you and Natasha.

Ginger-lyn
Hopitus2 - 05 Feb 2004 19:23 GMT
I had to do that whole number with the Ringer's Lactate fluids for Hopitus1
during his last days with us. He was battling pancreatitis (again), which
eventually sent him to the RB. I have relatives who've done the fluid drip
for their old cats with kidney failure. Like the insulin injection, the cats
don't seem to mind too much as needle is just under skin, not sticking in a
vein.

: >Last year TED said Natasha (who will be 17 in April) was having kidney
: >trouble, but was given an all-clear 3 months ago as all urine/blood
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
:
: Ginger-lyn
polonca12000 - 05 Feb 2004 22:03 GMT
No hints unfortunately, but lots of best wishes and purrs for you to have no
problems whatsoever doing fluid by IV at home,
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Polonca & Soncek

<snip> Does anyone have any
> helpful hints for doing fluid by IV at home?
>
> Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha
>
> http://www.jhedge.com
Jeanne Hedge - 05 Feb 2004 23:13 GMT
Thanks for all the advice and good thoughts. I didn't think about
warming the saline solution. It was room temperature today, I'll warm
it up a bit before tomorrow's session.

Here's how I did with my first session on this. I chose to do it in
the kitchen on the center island because it's someplace Natasha is not
supposed to be, and I don't want her to develop any fears of other
places she enjoys being. I hung the 1-liter bag of saline from the top
of the freezer compartment handle (my freezer is above my
refrigerator), where it fit nicely and was about 5-1/2 feet high. I
put a warm towel down on the countertop, arranged the tubing and
needle, and then got Tasha lying down on the towel.

When all was ready I pinched her skin and put the needle in - she
didn't even flinch. All seemed to be going ok, then there was a noise,
that made Tasha jump and yowl. Then I noticed that the drip-rate into
the little plastic tube at the bottom of the bag had increased
considerably. So I look down and realized that her fur is getting wet!
Yep, when she flinched at the noise she pulled the needle out. So I
shut the flow off and tried again. After I started the flow up I
looked at how far in the needle was, and not wanting it to pull out
again I pushed it in a little more (but still not the full length).

It took between 5-10 minutes to get the fluid in. The entire time I
was giving Natasha skritches to keep her from moving around, and she
just laid there and purred. She was looking around some, but since
moving her head that little bit didn't seem to bother her or the
needle I didn't get too concerned.

After we were done I shut off the flow, took the needle out, gave her
a couple snacks and a big hug (with more skritches) and lots of
praise. But she wanted *down*! Where'd she go? To the food and water
dishes. Right now she's getting a drink - feet first into the water
dish. Silly cat - I think this is bothering me much more than her! :)

TED was right - it is easy. But I sure wouldn't want to do it with a
wiggly cat!!!

Jeanne

>Last year TED said Natasha (who will be 17 in April) was having kidney
>trouble, but was given an all-clear 3 months ago as all urine/blood
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
>http://www.jhedge.com
Dan M - 05 Feb 2004 23:50 GMT
> When all was ready I pinched her skin and put the needle in - she
> didn't even flinch. All seemed to be going ok, then there was a noise,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> looked at how far in the needle was, and not wanting it to pull out
> again I pushed it in a little more (but still not the full length).

I'm *so* glad it's going well!

My initial problem when I was learning how to do DD was that I'd stick the
needle in too far - in one side of the loose skin and out the other - and
end up spraying the saline on her coat.
Jeanne Hedge - 06 Feb 2004 00:04 GMT
>> When all was ready I pinched her skin and put the needle in - she
>> didn't even flinch. All seemed to be going ok, then there was a noise,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>I'm *so* glad it's going well!

So am I! :)

>My initial problem when I was learning how to do DD was that I'd stick the
>needle in too far - in one side of the loose skin and out the other - and
>end up spraying the saline on her coat.

When the vet showed me how to do it, she made a big deal about
pinching up the skin with two fingers and then putting the needle into
the pinched skin right between my fingers (literally). She said if I
did it that way the only way I could have the needle come out the
other side was I put it in at an angle instead of straight in. And
then she noted that if I put the needle in at enough of an angle and
it went straight through, there was a chance that I'd stab my fingers
with it. Quite an inducement to make the needle go in straight!

After trying it myself now for real I can see how right she was. I can
use my fingers as a guide, the edges of a target and I have to hit the
bullseye with the needle. But I think I'm going to have to work on
getting it in deep enough.

I think this particular vet has the "teach shaky slave how to give
needles" bit down to a science :)

btw - after dining, Natasha has now bathed and is curled up in her bed
for her evening nap (followed shortly by going to sleep for the
night). This experience really bothered her. hah!

Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha

http://www.jhedge.com
fuga  =^o^= - 06 Feb 2004 03:23 GMT
Jeanne I am glad things went so well.  I think it is hardest for the
catslave.

Purrs,

Fuga
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 06 Feb 2004 03:33 GMT
> After we were done I shut off the flow, took the needle out, gave her
> a couple snacks and a big hug (with more skritches) and lots of
> praise. But she wanted *down*! Where'd she go? To the food and water
> dishes. Right now she's getting a drink - feet first into the water
> dish. Silly cat - I think this is bothering me much more than her! :)

Wait until about an hour goes by and you see how much she perks up!
I couldn't believe the difference in my cat's overall well-being from
just one sub-q treatment, once the fluids had been absorbed in her
system.

I'm glad it went well and wasn't traumatic for her. I'm sure you'll get
used to doing it, and then it won't be nerve-wracking for you, either.

Joyce
Adrian - 07 Feb 2004 16:46 GMT
<SNIP>
> TED was right - it is easy. But I sure wouldn't want to do it with a
> wiggly cat!!!
>
> Jeanne

I'm happy to read things are going well. :-)
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A house is not a home, without a cat.

Jeanne Hedge - 07 Feb 2004 23:34 GMT
><SNIP>
>> TED was right - it is easy. But I sure wouldn't want to do it with a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>
>I'm happy to read things are going well. :-)

I just finished giving Natasha her 3rd IV, and right now she's
munching on her dinner as if nothing's happened. :)

The one problem I'm still having is that I'm not getting the needle in
securely - as calm and non-wiggly Tasha is being about the entire
thing, she's managing to pull the needle out at least once every time
just by moving her head around. This is just something I'll get better
at with practice. At least I haven't had the needle tip come out the
other side or stabbed myself yet! :)

Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha

http://www.jhedge.com
lrulan - 07 Feb 2004 23:56 GMT
Jeanne, how wonderful for you and Natasha. You will certainly get better
with practice. God bless you and we hope Natasha recovers very soon and is
her old self again.
Jazz & his mama

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from now until the end of time

> ><SNIP>
> >> TED was right - it is easy. But I sure wouldn't want to do it with a
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> http://www.jhedge.com
Hopitus2 - 08 Feb 2004 00:03 GMT
Uh....it's been many years since I was "hydrating" Hopitus1 with the
Ringer's Lactate per vet's direction to treat Hop's pancreatitis attacks. If
you are having trouble because of cat's head movement dislodging needle from
subcutaneous insertion, ask your vet about this: I was inserting needle
under skin of my cat's side, *not* scruff of neck area. Not as easy to lift
skin, true, but head can move without problems you're facing. Fluid drip
procedure was same as everyone relates.....resulting "ball" of fluid under
skin was, I believe, much larger and more evident than it would have been at
neck scruff area; vet instructed me to"massage" area to "work fluid into
tissue more uniformly". Ask your vet about this if you think it would help
you. Note: Neck scruff area *is indeed* where I would insert the tiny
tuberculin-type needle for over 5 years, twice daily, to give him his
insulin injections, an entirely different undertaking for an entirely
different purpose.

: ><SNIP>
: >> TED was right - it is easy. But I sure wouldn't want to do it with a
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
:
: http://www.jhedge.com
Jeanne Hedge - 08 Feb 2004 02:16 GMT
>Uh....it's been many years since I was "hydrating" Hopitus1 with the
>Ringer's Lactate per vet's direction to treat Hop's pancreatitis attacks. If
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>insulin injections, an entirely different undertaking for an entirely
>different purpose.

Thanks for the advice.  :)

I think a big reason the needle comes out is that I've been keeping a
finger on it to make sure it stays in place. And then when Tasha moves
her head, the needle doesn't move with her (because I'm holding it
down), and so it pulls out instead. I need to be more confident that
I've got it in place the first time and it's not going to come out
unless I do something to make it come out, otherwise it *will* keep
coming out!

Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha

http://www.jhedge.com
Jeanne Hedge - 12 Feb 2004 02:46 GMT
Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test
could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration
therapy) the BUN value from the blood test is back to well within the
normal range. Creatinin(sp?) is still slightly high, but it's been
slightly high ever since this "grand" adventure began back in August
of last year. TED (a nice lady named Dr Grant) says an elevated C
value indicates there's a kidney problem, but also says the kidney
problem could simply be because of Natasha's age and that nothing
works as well as it used to ^_^

Anyway, I have to bring her back in 3 *months* (yay!) for another
re-check, and while I still have to hydrate her with IV fluids (Dr
Grant calls it "kitty dialysis"), I'm to do it every 3 days or so now
- basically twice/week instead of daily (yay yay!).

Tonight I learned how to swap the IV tube set from IV bag to IV bag
while still maintaining sterility. This is so that I don't have to pay
for a new tube set every time I get a new bag of fluid. I appreciate
this because they're charging me $20+ USD for a 1 liter bag of saline
solution. :p

The needles are free.  ;)

Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha

>Last year TED said Natasha (who will be 17 in April) was having kidney
>trouble, but was given an all-clear 3 months ago as all urine/blood
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
>http://www.jhedge.com
Yoj - 12 Feb 2004 03:11 GMT
I'm glad to hear things are improving, and Natasha is obviously in
better shape.

--
Joy

Life is what happens to you while you are planning to do something else.

> Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test
> could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> >
> >http://www.jhedge.com
Marina - 12 Feb 2004 03:59 GMT
"Jeanne Hedge" <jhedge@rcn.com> wrote
> Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test
> could be repeated.

So nice to hear that all is going so well with Natasha. Purrs continuing.

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Hopitus2 - 12 Feb 2004 03:59 GMT
FYI, I was paying $15 a bag for the solution 'way back in '87 - '89 for
Hopitus1...not too bad an increase in all those years gone by.

: > Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test
: > could be repeated.
:
: So nice to hear that all is going so well with Natasha. Purrs continuing.
Steve Touchstone - 12 Feb 2004 04:55 GMT
>Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test
>could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>Grant calls it "kitty dialysis"), I'm to do it every 3 days or so now
>- basically twice/week instead of daily (yay yay!).

Great to hear that she's doing so well ;-)

>Tonight I learned how to swap the IV tube set from IV bag to IV bag
>while still maintaining sterility. This is so that I don't have to pay
>for a new tube set every time I get a new bag of fluid. I appreciate
>this because they're charging me $20+ USD for a 1 liter bag of saline
>solution. :p
Now, I realise that it's been awhile since I worked in a pharmacy, but
that price seems outrageous. Unless there's some special additive, and
I can't think of what that might be, I suggest that you check around
for an alternate source (you may need a prescription from the vet,
though).
>The needles are free.  ;)

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Hopitus2 - 12 Feb 2004 05:48 GMT
It *is* expensive.....vets charge what traffic will bear.....my regimen
hydrating Hopitus1 was not a long one; pancreatitis crises are over, one way
or another, very fast, usually. Kidney failure, however, is another matter.
My relatives who did it for their beloved old cat's failing kidneys went on
and off with the procedure for years and luckily for them friends and
neighbors in hoomin medical fields supplied them with what they needed as
long as they were treating JK (their cat). They finally sent him tearfully
to RB when he could no longer motivate his back legs to get around and
seemed extremely distressed.

: >Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test
: >could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
: though).
: >The needles are free.  ;)
polonca12000 - 12 Feb 2004 08:46 GMT
Great news!
Continued purrs and best wishes for Natasha and hugs for you for doing such
a great job hydrating her,
Signature

Polonca & Soncek

> Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test
> could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration
> therapy) the BUN value from the blood test is back to well within the
> normal range. <snip
Christine Burel - 12 Feb 2004 14:23 GMT
Jeanne, glad Natasha has improved so!  Regarding the expense of the bags of
fluids -- when I was giving fluids daily my vet allowed me to buy a case of
fluids, IV lines and needles (lasted about 3-4 months if I remember
correctly) for about $30-$40, which I know was incredible.  If I bought them
singly with the IV line attached it was about the same price as you are
paying.  I learned from the vet techs how to attach my own lines so I could
take advantage of the price difference; it's not that hard either.  Before
this was available I bought my lactacted ringer, IV lines and needles from
an on-line supplier and it was still cheaper than buying one bag at a time
from the vet.  You could probably do a search and find a good supplier
online.  Next time I talk to Megan I'll ask her who she orders hers from.
Regards,
Christine
> Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test
> could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> >
> >http://www.jhedge.com
Annie Wxill - 12 Feb 2004 17:51 GMT
> Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test
> could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration
> therapy) the BUN value from the blood test is back to well within the
> normal range. ...> Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha

Great news that Natasha is doing better and that you don't have to hydrate
her every day anymore.  Good for you learning how to swap the IV tube and
save money.
Thanks for the update.
Annie
SUQKRT - 12 Feb 2004 19:01 GMT
>Tonight I learned how to swap the IV tube set from IV bag to IV bag
>while still maintaining sterility. This is so that I don't have to pay
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>The needles are free.  ;)

Sounds like things are improving. Heres more purrs in hope she keeps improving.
Suz
Macmoosette
Thank Heavens There's Only One
=^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=  =^..^=  =^..^=

I've learned to not sweat the petty things, and not pet the sweaty things.
LOL - 13 Feb 2004 04:39 GMT
> Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test
> could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha

I am glad to read that Natasha is doing better, and that you will no
longer have to hydrate her every day. We are sending our best purrs
that improvement continues.

But $20 for salt water?!  When I began wearing contact lenses, back
when the world was new, saline solution for contacts was not
manufactured and sold in the nifty plastic bottles, as it is now.  We
had to make our own with salt tablets and distilled water, and since
there were no preservatives in our homemade stuff, we had to make it
every day.  I believe if we were looking at having to do infusions
over a long term for one of our boys, I would look into whether
something like this were possible.  Even if not every day, all those
$20s are going to add up!  So I am asking Mike, Oz, and Tiger to throw
in a few extra purrs for your wallet.  :-)
------
Krista
Adrian - 13 Feb 2004 10:01 GMT
> Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test
> could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> The needles are free.  ;)

I'm so glad to hear Natasha's doing well.
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A house is not a home, without a cat.

CATherine - 14 Feb 2004 05:33 GMT
My, the things we learn to do for our furbabies. So, when are you
getting your RN license? :-D I am a CNA. I only give shots of
insulin...or did. It must be hard learning all that, like going to
school. Kudos to for your perseverance and dedication.

CATherine

>Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test
>could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>>
>>http://www.jhedge.com
Jeanne Hedge - 15 Feb 2004 00:04 GMT
>My, the things we learn to do for our furbabies. So, when are you
>getting your RN license? :-D I am a CNA. I only give shots of
>insulin...or did. It must be hard learning all that, like going to
>school. Kudos to for your perseverance and dedication.
>
>CATherine

Well thanks, but I'm not doing anything an awful lot of people here
have not done for their babies - and many many people have done much
more. I just happen to ask a lot of questions ^_^

As for RN <g>, I worked as a hospital floor clerk one summer job while
in college. I'm not familiar with CNA (certified nursing aide?
assistant?), but I have the highest respect for the RNs, LPNs, and
aides I worked with!

Thanks to everyone for their continuing purrs and good thougths for
Natasha!

Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha

http://www.jhedge.com
 
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