Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / February 2004
Giving Fluids at Home
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Jeanne Hedge - 05 Feb 2004 12:42 GMT Last year TED said Natasha (who will be 17 in April) was having kidney trouble, but was given an all-clear 3 months ago as all urine/blood values were within spec. Natasha had a check-up yesterday, and the BUN and Creatinin values from the blood test were slightly out of spec high again.
So... Natasha has been put back on Hill's K/D (which she'd been taken off of in October because she'd refused to eat it any longer), and I have to give her 100-150ml fluids by IV every day for the next week (then take her back to see how things are).
It seems Tasha just doesn't drink enough water. Given that she has always "drank" by sticking her feet into the water dish and then licking off her feet, I can't imagine why she isn't getting enough water into her system. <g>
TED showed me how to do the IV, and it seems simple enough (and fortunately Tasha is not a wiggly cat), but there are always handy tips about things to do and things to avoid. Does anyone have any helpful hints for doing fluid by IV at home?
Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha
http://www.jhedge.com
Marina - 05 Feb 2004 14:05 GMT > TED showed me how to do the IV, and it seems simple enough (and > fortunately Tasha is not a wiggly cat), but there are always handy > tips about things to do and things to avoid. Does anyone have any > helpful hints for doing fluid by IV at home? I don't have any tips, but we are sending lots of purrs and soothing vibes for the daily IVs.
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fuga =^o^= - 05 Feb 2004 14:21 GMT Hi Jeanne,
Fuga get fluids once a week or when we sense that he is dehydrated. We have a plant hook in our ceiling that is located over one of the desks in our office from which we hang the bag of fluids. We had a home visit with the vet for giving fluids and we learnt that the higher the fluids are the quicker they flow. On my desk we place Fuga's donut bed. I put a heating pad inside his bed so that he doesn't catch a chill from the fluids. Once we have the fluids set up, air bubbles removed, and needle replaced with put fuga in the bed and give him fluids. As a reward for the fluids, we give him some regular science diet (turkey or chicken & liver). Fuga still hates the fluids but he knows he will get treats and lots of pets while the fluid is being injected in him.
The plant hook on the ceiling was left from the previous tenant and the vet noticed it and said to use it. Now that we have been using it, I think I would recommend it to everyone it is much easier than trying to hang it off the door.
There is a K/D minced chicken food available in Canada and the US that is much more palatable than the Hills K/D that is worth trying. As well there is a food called g/d which is for beginning stages of renal failure. I rotate fuga's diet between these two foods, sometimes I even mix them together to give him variety. If I find he's getting finicky then I will add a little bit of regular science diet in with this food because it's more important that they eat.
http://www.felinecrf.org/giving_sub-qs_giving_set.htm
Here's a great link on food values. http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm The thing that is most important is feeding cats food low in phosphorous, some think protein values need to be lower and some don't -- there is mixed opinions on that.
We went out and bought a drinkwell fountain when Fuga was diagnosed to stimulate him to drink more water.
Hope this makes sense. I hate this kidney failure.
hugs,
Fuga
lrulan - 05 Feb 2004 16:16 GMT along this thread...how do you put the intravenous needle into the cat? Does it just go through the skin? This isn't intravenous then, is it? It's just like an injection. I can't imagine Jazz would ever let me do this to him, he would chomp my arm off. :( Jazz's mama
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> Hi Jeanne, > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Fuga Magic Mood Jeep? - 05 Feb 2004 17:30 GMT The fluids are the same as the ones used in IV's (a sterile saline solution), but this just goes under the skin. We had to do this daily for eight months for a CRF kitty (Ivy, who finally succumbed), and the fluid forms a 'pocket' under the skin that is absorbed into the body. We used to call it "Ivy's water boobie" because, even though we 'injected' it on her back, it would flow around to her chest/stomach area before it got absorbed.
And it helps to warm the IV solution in a bowl (or sink or whatever) of warm water until it is just warmer than luke-warm on your skin (remember that cats' body temperatures are higher than humans') - that way the kitty doesn't get a chill from the cold solution.
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> along this thread...how do you put the intravenous needle into the cat? Does > it just go through the skin? This isn't intravenous then, is it? It's just [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > > > Fuga Dan M - 05 Feb 2004 18:02 GMT > along this thread...how do you put the intravenous needle into the cat? Does > it just go through the skin? This isn't intravenous then, is it? It's just > like an injection. I can't imagine Jazz would ever let me do this to him, he > would chomp my arm off. :( > Jazz's mama It's actually done subcutaneously. Just pull up some loose skin from over the shoulders, poke there, and turn on the fluid flow. Not too hard once you get a little practice.
Dan
Jeanne Hedge - 05 Feb 2004 22:55 GMT >> along this thread...how do you put the intravenous needle into the cat? Does >> it just go through the skin? This isn't intravenous then, is it? It's just [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >the shoulders, poke there, and turn on the fluid flow. Not too hard once >you get a little practice. Yes, that's how TED showed me to do it - pinch up the loose skin between her shoulders, and then stick the needle into the skin between my fingers (length-ways rather than cross-ways)
I was reluctant to do it, but TED said "we have a diabetic cat at home, and if my husband can learn to give her shots, you can learn to do this!" ^_^
Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha
http://www.jhedge.com
Christine Burel - 05 Feb 2004 17:42 GMT Jeanne, I've given lots of fluids in my day (almost 7 years daily between 2 cats) and I found that if I hung the bag on a coathanger and hung the coathanger over the shower rod in the bathroom I could get a good flow rate for the fluids. The higher the bag, the quicker the flow rate and the sooner they're done with their dose. I liked giving the fluids in the bathroom because I could close the door off from the other kitties in the household. Hope this helps. Christine
> Hi Jeanne, > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Fuga Ginger-lyn Summer - 05 Feb 2004 16:59 GMT >Last year TED said Natasha (who will be 17 in April) was having kidney >trouble, but was given an all-clear 3 months ago as all urine/blood [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >http://www.jhedge.com Jeanne, sorry to hear Natasha needs the fluids. Fuga gave you great advice already. I would only add that, at first, accept that you won't do it perfectly, but that's okay. And always remember to turn off the little valve that lets the fluids flow before removing the needle (she said from experience) -- lol! I'm sure you'll do just fine. Purrs to you and Natasha.
Ginger-lyn
Hopitus2 - 05 Feb 2004 19:23 GMT I had to do that whole number with the Ringer's Lactate fluids for Hopitus1 during his last days with us. He was battling pancreatitis (again), which eventually sent him to the RB. I have relatives who've done the fluid drip for their old cats with kidney failure. Like the insulin injection, the cats don't seem to mind too much as needle is just under skin, not sticking in a vein.
: >Last year TED said Natasha (who will be 17 in April) was having kidney : >trouble, but was given an all-clear 3 months ago as all urine/blood [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] : : Ginger-lyn polonca12000 - 05 Feb 2004 22:03 GMT No hints unfortunately, but lots of best wishes and purrs for you to have no problems whatsoever doing fluid by IV at home,
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<snip> Does anyone have any
> helpful hints for doing fluid by IV at home? > > Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha > > http://www.jhedge.com Jeanne Hedge - 05 Feb 2004 23:13 GMT Thanks for all the advice and good thoughts. I didn't think about warming the saline solution. It was room temperature today, I'll warm it up a bit before tomorrow's session.
Here's how I did with my first session on this. I chose to do it in the kitchen on the center island because it's someplace Natasha is not supposed to be, and I don't want her to develop any fears of other places she enjoys being. I hung the 1-liter bag of saline from the top of the freezer compartment handle (my freezer is above my refrigerator), where it fit nicely and was about 5-1/2 feet high. I put a warm towel down on the countertop, arranged the tubing and needle, and then got Tasha lying down on the towel.
When all was ready I pinched her skin and put the needle in - she didn't even flinch. All seemed to be going ok, then there was a noise, that made Tasha jump and yowl. Then I noticed that the drip-rate into the little plastic tube at the bottom of the bag had increased considerably. So I look down and realized that her fur is getting wet! Yep, when she flinched at the noise she pulled the needle out. So I shut the flow off and tried again. After I started the flow up I looked at how far in the needle was, and not wanting it to pull out again I pushed it in a little more (but still not the full length).
It took between 5-10 minutes to get the fluid in. The entire time I was giving Natasha skritches to keep her from moving around, and she just laid there and purred. She was looking around some, but since moving her head that little bit didn't seem to bother her or the needle I didn't get too concerned.
After we were done I shut off the flow, took the needle out, gave her a couple snacks and a big hug (with more skritches) and lots of praise. But she wanted *down*! Where'd she go? To the food and water dishes. Right now she's getting a drink - feet first into the water dish. Silly cat - I think this is bothering me much more than her! :)
TED was right - it is easy. But I sure wouldn't want to do it with a wiggly cat!!!
Jeanne
>Last year TED said Natasha (who will be 17 in April) was having kidney >trouble, but was given an all-clear 3 months ago as all urine/blood [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >http://www.jhedge.com Dan M - 05 Feb 2004 23:50 GMT > When all was ready I pinched her skin and put the needle in - she > didn't even flinch. All seemed to be going ok, then there was a noise, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > looked at how far in the needle was, and not wanting it to pull out > again I pushed it in a little more (but still not the full length). I'm *so* glad it's going well!
My initial problem when I was learning how to do DD was that I'd stick the needle in too far - in one side of the loose skin and out the other - and end up spraying the saline on her coat.
Jeanne Hedge - 06 Feb 2004 00:04 GMT >> When all was ready I pinched her skin and put the needle in - she >> didn't even flinch. All seemed to be going ok, then there was a noise, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >I'm *so* glad it's going well! So am I! :)
>My initial problem when I was learning how to do DD was that I'd stick the >needle in too far - in one side of the loose skin and out the other - and >end up spraying the saline on her coat. When the vet showed me how to do it, she made a big deal about pinching up the skin with two fingers and then putting the needle into the pinched skin right between my fingers (literally). She said if I did it that way the only way I could have the needle come out the other side was I put it in at an angle instead of straight in. And then she noted that if I put the needle in at enough of an angle and it went straight through, there was a chance that I'd stab my fingers with it. Quite an inducement to make the needle go in straight!
After trying it myself now for real I can see how right she was. I can use my fingers as a guide, the edges of a target and I have to hit the bullseye with the needle. But I think I'm going to have to work on getting it in deep enough.
I think this particular vet has the "teach shaky slave how to give needles" bit down to a science :)
btw - after dining, Natasha has now bathed and is curled up in her bed for her evening nap (followed shortly by going to sleep for the night). This experience really bothered her. hah!
Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha
http://www.jhedge.com
fuga =^o^= - 06 Feb 2004 03:23 GMT Jeanne I am glad things went so well. I think it is hardest for the catslave.
Purrs,
Fuga
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 06 Feb 2004 03:33 GMT > After we were done I shut off the flow, took the needle out, gave her > a couple snacks and a big hug (with more skritches) and lots of > praise. But she wanted *down*! Where'd she go? To the food and water > dishes. Right now she's getting a drink - feet first into the water > dish. Silly cat - I think this is bothering me much more than her! :) Wait until about an hour goes by and you see how much she perks up! I couldn't believe the difference in my cat's overall well-being from just one sub-q treatment, once the fluids had been absorbed in her system.
I'm glad it went well and wasn't traumatic for her. I'm sure you'll get used to doing it, and then it won't be nerve-wracking for you, either.
Joyce
Adrian - 07 Feb 2004 16:46 GMT <SNIP>
> TED was right - it is easy. But I sure wouldn't want to do it with a > wiggly cat!!! > > Jeanne I'm happy to read things are going well. :-)
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Jeanne Hedge - 07 Feb 2004 23:34 GMT ><SNIP> >> TED was right - it is easy. But I sure wouldn't want to do it with a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >I'm happy to read things are going well. :-) I just finished giving Natasha her 3rd IV, and right now she's munching on her dinner as if nothing's happened. :)
The one problem I'm still having is that I'm not getting the needle in securely - as calm and non-wiggly Tasha is being about the entire thing, she's managing to pull the needle out at least once every time just by moving her head around. This is just something I'll get better at with practice. At least I haven't had the needle tip come out the other side or stabbed myself yet! :)
Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha
http://www.jhedge.com
lrulan - 07 Feb 2004 23:56 GMT Jeanne, how wonderful for you and Natasha. You will certainly get better with practice. God bless you and we hope Natasha recovers very soon and is her old self again. Jazz & his mama
 Signature Irulan from the stars we came, to the stars we return from now until the end of time
> ><SNIP> > >> TED was right - it is easy. But I sure wouldn't want to do it with a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > http://www.jhedge.com Hopitus2 - 08 Feb 2004 00:03 GMT Uh....it's been many years since I was "hydrating" Hopitus1 with the Ringer's Lactate per vet's direction to treat Hop's pancreatitis attacks. If you are having trouble because of cat's head movement dislodging needle from subcutaneous insertion, ask your vet about this: I was inserting needle under skin of my cat's side, *not* scruff of neck area. Not as easy to lift skin, true, but head can move without problems you're facing. Fluid drip procedure was same as everyone relates.....resulting "ball" of fluid under skin was, I believe, much larger and more evident than it would have been at neck scruff area; vet instructed me to"massage" area to "work fluid into tissue more uniformly". Ask your vet about this if you think it would help you. Note: Neck scruff area *is indeed* where I would insert the tiny tuberculin-type needle for over 5 years, twice daily, to give him his insulin injections, an entirely different undertaking for an entirely different purpose.
: ><SNIP> : >> TED was right - it is easy. But I sure wouldn't want to do it with a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] : : http://www.jhedge.com Jeanne Hedge - 08 Feb 2004 02:16 GMT >Uh....it's been many years since I was "hydrating" Hopitus1 with the >Ringer's Lactate per vet's direction to treat Hop's pancreatitis attacks. If [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >insulin injections, an entirely different undertaking for an entirely >different purpose. Thanks for the advice. :)
I think a big reason the needle comes out is that I've been keeping a finger on it to make sure it stays in place. And then when Tasha moves her head, the needle doesn't move with her (because I'm holding it down), and so it pulls out instead. I need to be more confident that I've got it in place the first time and it's not going to come out unless I do something to make it come out, otherwise it *will* keep coming out!
Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha
http://www.jhedge.com
Jeanne Hedge - 12 Feb 2004 02:46 GMT Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration therapy) the BUN value from the blood test is back to well within the normal range. Creatinin(sp?) is still slightly high, but it's been slightly high ever since this "grand" adventure began back in August of last year. TED (a nice lady named Dr Grant) says an elevated C value indicates there's a kidney problem, but also says the kidney problem could simply be because of Natasha's age and that nothing works as well as it used to ^_^
Anyway, I have to bring her back in 3 *months* (yay!) for another re-check, and while I still have to hydrate her with IV fluids (Dr Grant calls it "kitty dialysis"), I'm to do it every 3 days or so now - basically twice/week instead of daily (yay yay!).
Tonight I learned how to swap the IV tube set from IV bag to IV bag while still maintaining sterility. This is so that I don't have to pay for a new tube set every time I get a new bag of fluid. I appreciate this because they're charging me $20+ USD for a 1 liter bag of saline solution. :p
The needles are free. ;)
Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha
>Last year TED said Natasha (who will be 17 in April) was having kidney >trouble, but was given an all-clear 3 months ago as all urine/blood [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >http://www.jhedge.com Yoj - 12 Feb 2004 03:11 GMT I'm glad to hear things are improving, and Natasha is obviously in better shape.
-- Joy
Life is what happens to you while you are planning to do something else.
> Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test > could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > > >http://www.jhedge.com Marina - 12 Feb 2004 03:59 GMT "Jeanne Hedge" <jhedge@rcn.com> wrote
> Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test > could be repeated. So nice to hear that all is going so well with Natasha. Purrs continuing.
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Hopitus2 - 12 Feb 2004 03:59 GMT FYI, I was paying $15 a bag for the solution 'way back in '87 - '89 for Hopitus1...not too bad an increase in all those years gone by.
: > Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test : > could be repeated. : : So nice to hear that all is going so well with Natasha. Purrs continuing. Steve Touchstone - 12 Feb 2004 04:55 GMT >Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test >could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Grant calls it "kitty dialysis"), I'm to do it every 3 days or so now >- basically twice/week instead of daily (yay yay!). Great to hear that she's doing so well ;-)
>Tonight I learned how to swap the IV tube set from IV bag to IV bag >while still maintaining sterility. This is so that I don't have to pay >for a new tube set every time I get a new bag of fluid. I appreciate >this because they're charging me $20+ USD for a 1 liter bag of saline >solution. :p Now, I realise that it's been awhile since I worked in a pharmacy, but that price seems outrageous. Unless there's some special additive, and I can't think of what that might be, I suggest that you check around for an alternate source (you may need a prescription from the vet, though).
>The needles are free. ;)
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Hopitus2 - 12 Feb 2004 05:48 GMT It *is* expensive.....vets charge what traffic will bear.....my regimen hydrating Hopitus1 was not a long one; pancreatitis crises are over, one way or another, very fast, usually. Kidney failure, however, is another matter. My relatives who did it for their beloved old cat's failing kidneys went on and off with the procedure for years and luckily for them friends and neighbors in hoomin medical fields supplied them with what they needed as long as they were treating JK (their cat). They finally sent him tearfully to RB when he could no longer motivate his back legs to get around and seemed extremely distressed.
: >Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test : >could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] : though). : >The needles are free. ;) polonca12000 - 12 Feb 2004 08:46 GMT Great news! Continued purrs and best wishes for Natasha and hugs for you for doing such a great job hydrating her,
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> Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test > could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration > therapy) the BUN value from the blood test is back to well within the > normal range. <snip Christine Burel - 12 Feb 2004 14:23 GMT Jeanne, glad Natasha has improved so! Regarding the expense of the bags of fluids -- when I was giving fluids daily my vet allowed me to buy a case of fluids, IV lines and needles (lasted about 3-4 months if I remember correctly) for about $30-$40, which I know was incredible. If I bought them singly with the IV line attached it was about the same price as you are paying. I learned from the vet techs how to attach my own lines so I could take advantage of the price difference; it's not that hard either. Before this was available I bought my lactacted ringer, IV lines and needles from an on-line supplier and it was still cheaper than buying one bag at a time from the vet. You could probably do a search and find a good supplier online. Next time I talk to Megan I'll ask her who she orders hers from. Regards, Christine
> Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test > could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > > >http://www.jhedge.com Annie Wxill - 12 Feb 2004 17:51 GMT > Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test > could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration > therapy) the BUN value from the blood test is back to well within the > normal range. ...> Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha Great news that Natasha is doing better and that you don't have to hydrate her every day anymore. Good for you learning how to swap the IV tube and save money. Thanks for the update. Annie
SUQKRT - 12 Feb 2004 19:01 GMT >Tonight I learned how to swap the IV tube set from IV bag to IV bag >while still maintaining sterility. This is so that I don't have to pay [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >The needles are free. ;) Sounds like things are improving. Heres more purrs in hope she keeps improving. Suz Macmoosette Thank Heavens There's Only One =^..^= =^..^= =^..^= =^..^= =^..^= =^..^=
I've learned to not sweat the petty things, and not pet the sweaty things.
LOL - 13 Feb 2004 04:39 GMT > Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test > could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha I am glad to read that Natasha is doing better, and that you will no longer have to hydrate her every day. We are sending our best purrs that improvement continues.
But $20 for salt water?! When I began wearing contact lenses, back when the world was new, saline solution for contacts was not manufactured and sold in the nifty plastic bottles, as it is now. We had to make our own with salt tablets and distilled water, and since there were no preservatives in our homemade stuff, we had to make it every day. I believe if we were looking at having to do infusions over a long term for one of our boys, I would look into whether something like this were possible. Even if not every day, all those $20s are going to add up! So I am asking Mike, Oz, and Tiger to throw in a few extra purrs for your wallet. :-) ------ Krista
Adrian - 13 Feb 2004 10:01 GMT > Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test > could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > The needles are free. ;) I'm so glad to hear Natasha's doing well.
 Signature Adrian (Owned by Snoopy, Milo & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.
CATherine - 14 Feb 2004 05:33 GMT My, the things we learn to do for our furbabies. So, when are you getting your RN license? :-D I am a CNA. I only give shots of insulin...or did. It must be hard learning all that, like going to school. Kudos to for your perseverance and dedication.
CATherine
>Natasha paid another visit to TED tonight so last week's blood test >could be repeated. Thanks to all the purrs (and daily hydration [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >> >>http://www.jhedge.com Jeanne Hedge - 15 Feb 2004 00:04 GMT >My, the things we learn to do for our furbabies. So, when are you >getting your RN license? :-D I am a CNA. I only give shots of >insulin...or did. It must be hard learning all that, like going to >school. Kudos to for your perseverance and dedication. > >CATherine Well thanks, but I'm not doing anything an awful lot of people here have not done for their babies - and many many people have done much more. I just happen to ask a lot of questions ^_^
As for RN <g>, I worked as a hospital floor clerk one summer job while in college. I'm not familiar with CNA (certified nursing aide? assistant?), but I have the highest respect for the RNs, LPNs, and aides I worked with!
Thanks to everyone for their continuing purrs and good thougths for Natasha!
Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha
http://www.jhedge.com
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