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Cat Forum / General Topics / January 2004A meal of cat would disgust you wouldn't it?
"Tina Laitinen" <tina.laitinen@rogers.com> wrote in message news:<qGjLb.53564$1g41.20278@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>... > (snipped Everything it was dumb) > > Okay why do you think god put all these animals on earth? To eat. Cows are > here to eat. Chickens are here to eat and give us eggs. Do you think cows > are here to deplete the ozone layer with their farty gas? Is that why their > here? If you want to fight something how about extinction? People kill > gorrila's for bush meat. Or how about people killing tiger's for their fur? > Why not let people be people and not get on their backs about eating meat. > The sheep need to be sheared in the summer otherwise they get to hot. > People long ago figured that out. What about the vegtables you eat. Do you > think they like to be eaten? They probably have feelings to you know they > grow. Just go on what you believe and stop trying to push it on other > people. It's okay to let your cat outside as long as it's in a controled > environment. Some people build cat cages, some leash train their cats , > some who have big properties let them out to roam. You have to remember > that cats used to be wild before the Egyptians took em in and domesticated > them. > > That's my piece. > > Tina I thought I'd heard it all. Tina, Cows were first a wild breed of animal that like sheep, were kept within a careful balance by natural attrition. Humans started eating meat when we were savages. In today's world, there is absolutely no reason to eat meat. Nutritionally, the only positive gain to the human is the protein in meat. Protein can be eaten with exactly the same result by consuming legumes, (beans and bean byproducts like soy meal, tofu, soymilk, and soy anything. Ounce for ounce, soy has the same amount of protein as meat. I can prove this if you wish to argue about it. Meat on the other hand is one of the largest factors in the limitations of the human lifespan today. The liver of most living beings excretes a substance called Cholesterol. This substance builds up in the circulatory system of every animal, including humans, and is the cause of millions of human deaths each year. So, Tina, you are wrong about why humans have meat to eat. The number of cows on the planet right now is roughly ten million times what nature would support. These cows are bred in massive quantities for human consumption, not nature. The same can be said for all of the animals that humans eat. Each year, around 600 million chickens, 19 million sheep and lambs, 14 million pigs and 3.3 million cattle are slaughtered in Britain alone. http://www.ciwf.co.uk/Trust/FF/farmfacts%20slaughter.htm Imagine how many are slaughtered in the world per/day! If you wish to be the same as some savage caveman and eat the flesh of creatures that have just as much right to live as you do, then do so. Don't give me a bunch of crap about how God made them for you to eat. The butchery of the world's animals is so disgusting that there are no words for it. Dogs and cats are eaten as staples in Korea and China. Did God make them for eating also? Before you turn up you nose at Soy products, you had better read the ingredients in most of the off the shelf items you buy at the store today. Soy is in almost everything in one form or another. Would you like to visit Korea and eat a nice meal of stewed cat? You would find that just as disgusting as the eating of any kind of animal is to me. You are probably a very nice person, but you need to visit a slaughterhouse with Bobby. Then you would eat as God meant you to. Your question about eating vegetables is a very common one among meat eaters. It doesn't make a bit of sense, but it does help you forget the fact that your burger used to be a living happy animal with a brain and a life that was ended because of your addiction to meat. You eat it even though it kills you back. > I thought I'd heard it all. Tina, Cows were first a wild breed of > animal that like sheep, were kept within a careful balance by natural > attrition. Humans started eating meat when we were savages. In today's > world, there is absolutely no reason to eat meat. We are omnivores, as an examination of our digestive tract will show. > Nutritionally, the only positive gain to the human is the protein in > meat. Protein can be eaten with exactly the same result by consuming > legumes, (beans and bean byproducts like soy meal, tofu, soymilk, and > soy anything. Ounce for ounce, soy has the same amount of protein as > meat. I can prove this if you wish to argue about it. It isn't the protein, it's the taste and texture. I drink a couple soy protein shakes each day, but I love beef and other meats and eat it on average, twice a week. > Meat on the other hand is one of the largest factors in the > limitations of the human lifespan today. The liver of most living > beings excretes a substance called Cholesterol. This substance builds > up in the circulatory system of every animal, including humans, and is > the cause of millions of human deaths each year. The secret is a balanced diet. If I eat nothing but beef, sure, my health will decline, but a well balanced diet can include occasional meats without harm. I'm not looking to start an argument, just contributing my two cents to the thread. > > I thought I'd heard it all. Tina, Cows were first a wild breed of > > animal that like sheep, were kept within a careful balance by natural > > attrition. Humans started eating meat when we were savages. In today's > > world, there is absolutely no reason to eat meat. > > We are omnivores, as an examination of our digestive tract will show. We also have the reminents of the full webs between our fingers and toes. We also have the genes necessary for gills. Our teeth and digestive tract are no longer necessary as designed. I do concede the point that desire is a reason to eat meat. What I should have said is that eating meat is not necessary for humans. > > Nutritionally, the only positive gain to the human is the protein in > > meat. Protein can be eaten with exactly the same result by consuming [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > protein shakes each day, but I love beef and other meats and eat it on > average, twice a week. It's been shown that all food habits are learned after birth with the exception of mothers milk. Raw monkey brains are considered a quite a treat in some places. I ate beef for 40+ years of my life and decided after 5 heart bypasses to change my eating habits. After many years of excluding beef from my diet, beef now smells very similar to human waste to me and the thought of eating it gags me. I do understand. I used to think a Big Mac was a great taste. If I were Korean and chose to eat cats, I would probably think they tasted great too. Steamed fish eyes are supposed to be a delicacy also but I think I'll pass on them. > > Meat on the other hand is one of the largest factors in the > > limitations of the human lifespan today. The liver of most living [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > will decline, but a well balanced diet can include occasional meats without > harm. Occasional heroin can be used without harm also. Occasional canibilism can be done with no harm also. However, I think that when the reusable bolt is fired into a cows brain to kill them, the cow might not agree that no harm has been done. > I'm not looking to start an argument, just contributing my two cents to the > thread. I do understand. I said the same things for many decades. Now, I think differently. Don't take my stance against Butthead Bobby as an attack on you. I love to mess with him. He is such a closed minded idiot that I have taken it upon myself to see if he can take what he dishes out. By the way Bobby, you now owe at least one million dollars to this group for having to listen to your crap for all of these years. That is based on $1 for each stupid statement you have made. >> > I thought I'd heard it all. Tina, Cows were first a wild breed of >> > animal that like sheep, were kept within a careful balance by natural [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >We also have the reminents of the full webs between our fingers and >toes. No we don't. >We also have the genes necessary for gills. Not active and not able to be activated. > Our teeth and >digestive tract are no longer necessary as designed. I do concede the >point that desire is a reason to eat meat. What I should have said is >that eating meat is not necessary for humans. Yes it is, there are essential fatty acids that cannot be obtained from plant material. >> > Nutritionally, the only positive gain to the human is the protein in >> > meat. Protein can be eaten with exactly the same result by consuming [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >treat in some places. I ate beef for 40+ years of my life and decided >after 5 heart bypasses to change my eating habits. I would have change after the first. However, to exclude ALL meat is as bad as eating nothing but meat. > After many years of >excluding beef from my diet, beef now smells very similar to human >waste to me and the thought of eating it gags me. I do understand. I >used to think a Big Mac was a great taste. If I were Korean and chose >to eat cats, I would probably think they tasted great too. I'm sure they do. And if raised in proper conditions and killed in an humane way, I would not condemn them for doing so. > Steamed >fish eyes are supposed to be a delicacy also but I think I'll pass on [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Occasional heroin can be used without harm also. Heroin can be used as a medical drug, but there are better things available. > Occasional canibilism >can be done with no harm also. Very true, though there are added risks with eating too close to the genetic tree. >However, I think that when the reusable >bolt is fired into a cows brain to kill them, the cow might not agree >that no harm has been done. The cow does not have the intelligence to understand. >> I'm not looking to start an argument, just contributing my two cents to the >> thread. > >I do understand. I said the same things for many decades. Now, I think >differently. Don't take my stance against Butthead Bobby as an attack >on you. I love to mess with him. Stupid troll. >He is such a closed minded idiot that >I have taken it upon myself to see if he can take what he dishes out. > >By the way Bobby, you now owe at least one million dollars to this >group for having to listen to your crap for all of these years. That >is based on $1 for each stupid statement you have made. In that case I own you nothing - as you will not find a single stupid statement from me. Oh how I wish the same could be said for you.  SignatureBob. The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be summed up in one word -- YOU. > >> > I thought I'd heard it all. Tina, Cows were first a wild breed of > >> > animal that like sheep, were kept within a careful balance by natural [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > No we don't. Yes we do. Precursors of the skeleton of our human hand can be traced back at least 370 million years to the pectoral fin of an extinct fish. The basic pentadactyl (5-digit) hand is found in skeletons of mammal-like reptiles that lived 200 million years ago. Sixty-five million years ago, the basic hand skeleton became a fixed mammalian characteristic. Around 25 million years ago, the apes living in the forests began to develop more mobile forelimbs and hands with longer, stronger fingers. Their thumb was short and lacked both long flexor and extensor tendons, and the fingers and nails were curved to aid in grasping tree limbs. Our first unequivocal ape ancestor lived 19 million years ago. Named Proconsulitous, it was about the size of a fox terrier and had fingers that were flat nailed and had a pseudo opposable thumb. Some apes developed a knuckle-walking gait similar to that of modern chimpanzees. About 5 million years ago, future man split off from the apes, and between 3 and 4 million years ago “Lucy” developed. Properly named Australopithecus afarensis, her given name was derived from the Beatles' song “Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds,” which was popular at the time her bones were discovered (2). Lucy was 3 1/2' tall with arms longer than modern man and small, strong hands. Thus, around 3 million years ago we have the first evidence of a true bipedal hominid. > >We also have the genes necessary for gills. > > Not active and not able to be activated. Human babies are born with gills every so often. Easily corrected by surgery. > > Our teeth and > >digestive tract are no longer necessary as designed. I do concede the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Yes it is, there are essential fatty acids that cannot be obtained > from plant material. Jeeez Bobby, you're wrong again. These fatty acids may be saturated, monounsaturated or polyunsaturated. Saturated and monounsaturated fats are not necessary in a vegetarian diet as they can be made in the human body. However, two polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) - linoleic acid (omega 6) and linolenic acid (omega 3) - cannot be manufactured by the body and must be provided in the diet. Fortunately, they are widely available in vegetarian/vegan plant foods. Sources of Essential Fatty Acids in a Vegetarian Diet Vegetarians and vegans may obtain omega 6 and omega 3 fatty acids as follows: Linoleic Acid (Omega 6 family) in Vegetarian Diet Good vegetarian/vegan sources include: safflower oil, evening primrose oil, grapeseed oil, sunflower oil, walnut oil, soy oil, corn oil, sesame oil, sunflower seeds, walnuts, sesame seeds. Alpha-Linolenic Acid (Omega 3 family) in Vegetarian Diet Good vegetarian/vegan sources include: flaxseed (linseed) oil, flaxseeds (linseeds), and also walnut oil, canola (rapeseed) oil. Omega 6/Omega 3 Balance While our intake of omega 3 is too low, our intake of omega 6 is too high. Experts consider the correct omega 6/3 balance to be roughly 3:1 omega 6/omega 3, instead of the current balance of roughly 10:1 balance. Note: Total fat intake should not exceed 30 percent of calories. Benefits of Omega 6 and Omega 3 Fatty Acids in Vegetarian Diet Evidence is increasing that omega 6 and especially omega 3 fats are beneficial for a range of conditions, including heart disease, cancer, immune system deficiencies and arthritis. > >> > Nutritionally, the only positive gain to the human is the protein in > >> > meat. Protein can be eaten with exactly the same result by consuming [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I would have change after the first. However, to exclude ALL meat is > as bad as eating nothing but meat. Duh. Bobby, I had all 5 at once. And excluding ALL meat is very good for humans. > > After many years of > >excluding beef from my diet, beef now smells very similar to human [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I'm sure they do. And if raised in proper conditions and killed in an > humane way, I would not condemn them for doing so. So, eating cats is ok to you now? You're weird dude. > > Steamed > >fish eyes are supposed to be a delicacy also but I think I'll pass on [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > The cow does not have the intelligence to understand. Oh, so an animal gets to live in your world depending on how smart you think it is. Now I understand. > >> I'm not looking to start an argument, just contributing my two cents to the > >> thread. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Stupid troll. You are a total butthead. You're not even bright enough to be a troll. > >He is such a closed minded idiot that > >I have taken it upon myself to see if he can take what he dishes out. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > In that case I own you nothing - as you will not find a single stupid > statement from me. Oh how I wish the same could be said for you. Hell Bobby, I found several stupid statements from you in just this thread. Being from that little island seems to cause stupidity. At least until you get your butts kicked. Then you seem to get a little smarter. >> >> > I thought I'd heard it all. Tina, Cows were first a wild breed of >> >> > animal that like sheep, were kept within a careful balance by natural [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Yes we do. No we don't. > Precursors of the skeleton of our human hand can be traced back at >least 370 million years to the pectoral fin of an extinct fish. The [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >Thus, around 3 million years ago we have the first evidence of a true >bipedal hominid. Nice cut and paste job - even if there are a few mistakes. However, that has sweet-FA to do with webbed fingers. Care to try again? >> >We also have the genes necessary for gills. >> >> Not active and not able to be activated. > >Human babies are born with gills every so often. Easily corrected by >surgery. I'm sure you have read that somewhere - but don't believe everything you read. >> > Our teeth and >> >digestive tract are no longer necessary as designed. I do concede the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Jeeez Bobby, you're wrong again. [cut more "cut and paste" crap] You do like the cut and paste don't you. Pity you go for the sites that get things wrong. >> >> > Nutritionally, the only positive gain to the human is the protein in >> >> > meat. Protein can be eaten with exactly the same result by consuming [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Duh. Bobby, I had all 5 at once. And excluding ALL meat is very good >for humans. Excluding ALL meat does not produce a good diet. Humans need meat, especially in their early years. >> > After many years of >> >excluding beef from my diet, beef now smells very similar to human [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >So, eating cats is ok to you now? You're weird dude. Why? >> The cow does not have the intelligence to understand. > >Oh, so an animal gets to live in your world depending on how smart you >think it is. Now I understand. Do you? I think not. >> >> I'm not looking to start an argument, just contributing my two cents to the >> >> thread. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >You are a total butthead. You're not even bright enough to be a troll. Stupid troll. >> >He is such a closed minded idiot that >> >I have taken it upon myself to see if he can take what he dishes out. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Hell Bobby, I found several stupid statements from you in just this >thread. Have you? You may think you have - but that just shows your stupidity. >Being from that little island seems to cause stupidity. At least until >you get your butts kicked. Then you seem to get a little smarter. Hehehehehe, you really do like to make a fool of yourself. SignatureBob. I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public. > Nice cut and paste job - even if there are a few mistakes. > > However, that has sweet-FA to do with webbed fingers. > > Care to try again? Are you really as ignorant as you act? You need to open the books and your mind. > >> >We also have the genes necessary for gills. > >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I'm sure you have read that somewhere - but don't believe everything > you read. It's in the books written by people much smarter than you. > >> > Our teeth and > >> >digestive tract are no longer necessary as designed. I do concede the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > You do like the cut and paste don't you. Pity you go for the sites > that get things wrong. The site isn't wrong. Your saying so doesn't mean squat. Show me at least one citation. > Excluding ALL meat does not produce a good diet. Humans need meat, > especially in their early years. No they don't. Again, show me a citation. You are such a fool. > >So, eating cats is ok to you now? You're weird dude. > > Why? By asking why, you show your true self. Sick person. > >> The cow does not have the intelligence to understand. > > > >Oh, so an animal gets to live in your world depending on how smart you > >think it is. Now I understand. > > Do you? I think not. Oh yes Bobby, you aren't very hard to understand. You're an idiot. > >You are a total butthead. You're not even bright enough to be a troll. > > Stupid troll. Yawn. > >Hell Bobby, I found several stupid statements from you in just this > >thread. > > Have you? You may think you have - but that just shows your stupidity. An idiot calling me stupid...picture Bobby in a little jester suit... > >Being from that little island seems to cause stupidity. At least until > >you get your butts kicked. Then you seem to get a little smarter. > > Hehehehehe, you really do like to make a fool of yourself. I'm neither a fool or a little island boy. You are both. > Are you really as ignorant as you act? You need to open the books and > your mind. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > An idiot calling me stupid...picture Bobby in a little jester suit... > I'm neither a fool or a little island boy. You are both. Why bother to continue this? At some point, the sooner the better where this one is concerned, you have to say, "Thanks for the laughs", and move on. Is he really worth this much time and energy? Nina >> Nice cut and paste job - even if there are a few mistakes. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Are you really as ignorant as you act? You need to open the books and >your mind. Are you really ignorant enough to believe all you read? >> >> >We also have the genes necessary for gills. >> >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >It's in the books written by people much smarter than you. As I said, are you really ignorant enough to believe all you read? >> >> > Our teeth and >> >> >digestive tract are no longer necessary as designed. I do concede the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >The site isn't wrong. Your saying so doesn't mean squat. Show me at >least one citation. I'll just stick with the facts - do try finding a few and you may do a lot better. >> Excluding ALL meat does not produce a good diet. Humans need meat, >> especially in their early years. > >No they don't. Again, show me a citation. You are such a fool. Humans need meat, especially in their early years, that is a fact of nature - designed in to us my millions of years of evolution. >> >So, eating cats is ok to you now? You're weird dude. >> >> Why? > >By asking why, you show your true self. Sick person. No, I show myself as someone with a brain. What is the difference in your mind between the cat and other animals? >> >> The cow does not have the intelligence to understand. >> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Oh yes Bobby, you aren't very hard to understand. You're an idiot. Mmmm. funny how it is always a proponent of animal abuse that comes back with that sort of reply. >> >You are a total butthead. You're not even bright enough to be a troll. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >An idiot calling me stupid...picture Bobby in a little jester suit... I picture you in a padded cell. >> >Being from that little island seems to cause stupidity. At least until >> >you get your butts kicked. Then you seem to get a little smarter. >> >> Hehehehehe, you really do like to make a fool of yourself. > >I'm neither a fool or a little island boy. You are both. SignatureBob. After the Ark had been at sea for over three weeks, one of Noah's sons came to him with a problem. "What will we do with all the sh.t piling up in the bull's pen?" "Push it over the side," said Noah. They did. And a few thousand years later it was discovered by Christopher Columbus. > >> >We also have the genes necessary for gills. > >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I'm sure you have read that somewhere - but don't believe everything > you read. Embryology http://www.ruhs.uwm.edu/users/staff/jeffan/Embryology.html Human, chickens, pigs, and other non-aquatic embryos exhibit gill slits even though they never breathe through gills. These slits are found in the embryos of all vertebrates because they share as common ancestors the fish in which these structures first evolved. Human embryos also exhibit by the fourth week of development a well-defined tail, which reaches maximum length when the embryo is six weeks old. Similar embryonic tails are found in other mammals, such as dogs, horses, and monkeys; in humans, however, the tail eventually shortens, persisting only as a rudiment in the adult coccyx. Embryonic rudiments that never fully develop, such as the gill slits in humans, are common in all sorts of animals. Some, however, like the tail rudiment in humans, persist as the remains reflecting evolutionary ancestry. The most familiar rudimentary organ in humans is the appendix. This structure attaches to a short section of intestine called the cecum, which is located at the point where the large and small intestines join. The human appendix is a functionless remnant of a fully developed organ present in other mammals, such as the rabbit and other herbivores, where a large cecum and appendix store vegetable cellulose to enable its digestion with the help of bacteria. Such vestiges are instances of imperfections that argue against creation by design but are fully understandable as a result of evolution. >> >> >We also have the genes necessary for gills. >> >> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >against creation by design but are fully understandable as a result of >evolution. Thank you for providing the proof that you were wrong. Oh, and do you see why we have such a small appendix? It is because we are an omnivore, in fact one leaning towards a carnivore. SignatureBob. Light travels faster than sound. This is why you appear bright until we hear you talk. >Thank you for providing the proof that you were wrong. > >Oh, and do you see why we have such a small appendix? It is because we >are an omnivore, in fact one leaning towards a carnivore. I see that you interpret anything to fit your weird ideas. Even when the proof that you are wrong is staring you in the eye. >>Thank you for providing the proof that you were wrong. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I see that you interpret anything to fit your weird ideas. Even when >the proof that you are wrong is staring you in the eye. No, I accept the scientific facts. Maybe if he (and you) did the same then you would be able to read things with greater comprehension. Let me reiterate part of what you so ineptly snipped:- "Embryonic rudiments that never fully develop," not fetal, which could agree with his stupid claim that "Human babies are born with gills every so often. Easily corrected by surgery." An embryo cannot be born and certainly would not live to have surgery. The myth that human babies have been born with gills is just that - a myth. Another part you chose to ignore:- "The human appendix is a functionless remnant of a fully developed organ present in other mammals, such as the rabbit and other herbivores" That confirms that man has been designed, by millions of years of evolution, to be at the carnivore end of the omnivore spectrum. Man can live without meat, but he will be less healthy for it than a person who has a balanced diet. Man can also live on meat alone, but he will be far less healthy for it than a person on a balanced diet. Sorry, but those are facts you just have to learn to live with. SignatureBob. You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your friends so they may learn as well. > No, I accept the scientific facts. Maybe if he (and you) did the same > then you would be able to read things with greater comprehension. Bobby Brenchly-Scientific Facts, no, those two don't belong together. > An embryo cannot be born and certainly would not live to have surgery. > The myth that human babies have been born with gills is just that - a > myth. Malformed babies are born every day. History is full of examples of this. > Man can live without meat, but he will be less healthy for it than a > person who has a balanced diet. Totally wrong as I've shown you. Meat does nothing that can't be done with vegetables or natural secretions. How many times must you hear this before you get it through your thick brit head? > Man can also live on meat alone, but > he will be far less healthy for it than a person on a balanced diet. Of Legumes, vegetables and fruits. Those are facts you just have to learn to live with them, flesh eater. >> No, I accept the scientific facts. Maybe if he (and you) did the same >> then you would be able to read things with greater comprehension. >> >Bobby Brenchly-Scientific Facts, no, those two don't belong together. Facts are facts - they are neither my facts nor your facts - they are just facts. Try learning a few. >> An embryo cannot be born and certainly would not live to have surgery. >> The myth that human babies have been born with gills is just that - a >> myth. >> >Malformed babies are born every day. History is full of examples of >this. There are no cases of a baby being born with gills. >> Man can live without meat, but he will be less healthy for it than a >> person who has a balanced diet. > >Totally wrong as I've shown you. As you attempted to show, but failed - mainly because you did not read the information first. >Meat does nothing that can't be done >with vegetables or natural secretions. How many times must you hear >this before you get it through your thick brit head? As I've said, man can live without meat, but he will be less healthy for it than a person who has a balanced diet. >> Man can also live on meat alone, but >> he will be far less healthy for it than a person on a balanced diet. > >Of Legumes, vegetables and fruits. That is NOT a balanced diet - it contains no meat. >Those are facts you just have to learn to live with them, flesh eater. SignatureBob. Everyone is entitled to be stupid but you're abusing the privilege. Damn, a flame war between the regulars wasn't what I had in mind when I posted that I like steak and such. I'm sorry I said anything. >Facts are facts - they are neither my facts nor your facts - they are >just facts. Bob, I'm 51 years old and have studied intensely most of my life. I will find the resource that I saw the reference to the gill like openings on a living human and investigate the facts of the reference very closely. I will grant you that there is a possibility that this reference is not creditable, but I will see if that is so. It's been more than 20 years since my reading of the information. On the other hand, I am positive about the meat issue. Any citations that you can provide to the contrary will be investigated thoroughly. I will also find more citations for my own argument and post them. I will also tell you exactly how I think of British people. After spending 3 years in Berlin, and having many, many instances of contact with British people in many types of encounters, I can honestly say that I have never met a British man that I liked. There are numerous reasons for this dislike. However, I have never met a British woman that I didn't like. What a difference there seems to be in the mannerisms if the sexes in your country. In actuality, I think both of our countries would be much better off if we let the women run the show. So far, men have managed to damn near ruin the entire planet for all of us. Perhaps the women could straiten out our mess. You and I seem to be cut from much different cloth. However, never in my life have I met anyone that I couldn't find a common ground with. I'll tell you what. I'll quit with the name-calling and disruptive bullshit if you will. You will of course keep up the opinions that you seem to have no other way of expressing but by insult. I know other people like that. Most people don't like them. I have found that every person has something about him or her that is good. I just don't know you well enough to know your good part. Due to the amount of stress that this type of back and forth causes me, I have to quit and try to avoid getting into another of these exchanges. I look forward to any proof you find to offer in support of the claim that meat is a necessity. >>Facts are facts - they are neither my facts nor your facts - they are >>just facts. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >reference is not creditable, but I will see if that is so. It's been >more than 20 years since my reading of the information. Ah! but that is something different. Gill like openings are not gills. What I think you are talking of is rather another manifestation of the genetic problem that causes cleft palate/lip, sometime (but rather rarely) appearing as a vertical slit usually on the forward side of the neck. Remember that gills are the fish equivalent of lungs - there are a finely branching structure filled with blood that extracts oxygen from the water and vents Co2. >On the other hand, I am positive about the meat issue. Any citations >that you can provide to the contrary will be investigated thoroughly. I also am positive on the meat issue, and have many millions of years of evolution to back me up. >I will also find more citations for my own argument and post them. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >that I didn't like. What a difference there seems to be in the >mannerisms if the sexes in your country. I've met many Americans (both US and Canadian) that I like - but most of them have moved over here. >In actuality, I think both of our countries would be much better off >if we let the women run the show. So far, men have managed to damn >near ruin the entire planet for all of us. Perhaps the women could >straiten out our mess. It happened in the UK, for many years - Mrs T did a wonderful job - until she got stabbed in the back by her loyal men. >You and I seem to be cut from much different cloth. However, never in >my life have I met anyone that I couldn't find a common ground with. > >I'll tell you what. I'll quit with the name-calling and disruptive >bullshit if you will. You will of course keep up the opinions that you >seem to have no other way of expressing but by insult. If you had spent the amount of time I have trying to protect cats from (largely American) animal abusers you would throw a few insults when they are earnt. > I know other >people like that. Most people don't like them. I have found that every [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I look forward to any proof you find to offer in support of the claim >that meat is a necessity. I will reiterate from an earlier post:_ "The human appendix is a functionless remnant of a fully developed organ present in other mammals, such as the rabbit and other herbivores" That confirms that man has been designed, by millions of years of evolution, to be at the carnivore end of the omnivore spectrum. SignatureBob. The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The distinction is yours to draw... On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:14:03 +0000, Bob Brenchley. >If you had spent the amount of time I have trying to protect cats from >(largely American) animal abusers you would throw a few insults when >they are earnt. Yes, perhaps... but you're a lot more interesting in an actual discussion. Even your more controversial stands on cats are easier to digest (and even learn from) when you refrain from the insults. >"The human appendix is a functionless remnant of a fully developed >organ present in other mammals, such as the rabbit and other >herbivores" An intact appendix has been found to correlate to lower occurances of some cancer forms. No good explanation for this has yet been found. Bob is correct in that many mammalian carnivores have a small or even vestigal appendix. >That confirms that man has been designed, by millions of years of >evolution, to be at the carnivore end of the omnivore spectrum. Some recent research indicates that some trace minerals which have long been thought to have no nutritional value are now being looked at with respect to the auto-immune system, and cancer fighting agents in particular. Many of these elements are found only in meat, as they tend to accumulate in the blood vessel walls. Current nutritional supplements (for humans and cats) do not replace these naturally occuring minerals. I wouldn't mention this in a cat newsgroup except that it implies that all omni- and carnivores may derive some benefit from these trace minerals. Many cat foods on the American market (and European too I would assume) have little or no real meat. A good reason to make sure you and your kitties share a little steak now and then. ~Ed~ "If it doesn't hurt, I'm not doing you any good." >Many cat foods on the American market (and >European too I would assume) have little or no real meat. Would you like to define "real meat"? >A good >reason to make sure you and your kitties share a little steak now and >then. I would not stand a chance of getting a look in :) SignatureBob. Anything on the ground is a cat toy. Anything not there yet, will be. >>Many cat foods on the American market (and >>European too I would assume) have little or no real meat. > >Would you like to define "real meat"? Some of the foods are merely grain and fillers then soaked in some broth of beef, turkey, or the like. As best as I can tell, no real effort is made in these to create complete proteins. Some labels do point out what they are using to form complete protein chains, but not many. Most of the popular brands use "meat by-products" which gives them room to use whatever scraps they can pick up cheap. Gristle, fatty chunks... anything that wouldn't sell in the grocery store. At least you know that some of the proteins are complete there. The label gives only minimum and maximum percentages for ingredients, so bags bought at differing times might contain different percentages of protein, fat, and fillers within a set range. Only the high end foods use meat that you or I would normally use. The food we use right now is a very low fat, low magnesium, low sodium, high protein duck and rice formula that is low allergen. Not many use something this specialized though... Two of our babies are turning 15 in two weeks and are taking medication for hyperthyroid, and the other will be 13, so we are trying to be careful with their diet. They get regular servings of tuna, beef, chicken and turkey to supplement the purchased food. They seem to be thriving... the old female even got a bird that flew in through our chimney! I would like to build my own food formula since the store stuff is about $2.50 a pound, so we're trying to sort out nutritional data from the web... sigh... >>A good >>reason to make sure you and your kitties share a little steak now and >>then. > >I would not stand a chance of getting a look in :) I know what you mean... it is a nightly dance to protect our plates! ~Ed~ "If it doesn't hurt, I'm not doing you any good." >>>Many cat foods on the American market (and >>>European too I would assume) have little or no real meat. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >protein, fat, and fillers within a set range. Only the high end foods >use meat that you or I would normally use. Ah! In the UK it is different. All meat used in cat food has to be human quality. Some "by products" are used, but then they get used in pies and burgers anyway. >The food we use right now is a very low fat, low magnesium, low >sodium, high protein duck and rice formula that is low allergen. Not [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >about $2.50 a pound, so we're trying to sort out nutritional data from >the web... sigh... Yes, a lot of conflicting stuff - much of it totally wrong. I always recommend a reasonable quality tinned food for their main diet, then a few nice extras to give them something of a variety. >>>A good >>>reason to make sure you and your kitties share a little steak now and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >I know what you mean... it is a nightly dance to protect our plates! You may have heard of the Red Arrows aerobatic team? We have (or should I say had) a vary large Airforce base near here and one nice summers evening the Red Arrows gave a display as part of the base's open day. We interrupted out meal to go out an watch - I mean they were performing right over our heads part of the time. When we went back in there was Sam, our lead male at the time, sat on the big soft chair looking very content. No wonder - every last scrap of the salmon we had for our meal was missing from the plates. As there were four of us, and we had not been skimpy with the portions, you can imagine - we had one very fat cat :) SignatureBob. Why isn't there mouse-flavored cat food? > On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:14:03 +0000, Bob Brenchley. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > discussion. Even your more controversial stands on cats are easier to > digest (and even learn from) when you refrain from the insults. I agree. Bob obviously has his brain on. I just resent being called names. I respond in kind. If Bob would always talk to people in a polite way, no one would ever think badly of him. Some, not all would also learn. > >"The human appendix is a functionless remnant of a fully developed > >organ present in other mammals, such as the rabbit and other [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > then. > ~Ed~ Your information is new to me. Would you please provide a source? I would like to learn more about this issue. On the pretext that what you say is correct, then how much meat per/day or per/meal is the top limit of it's benifit? When does the quanity exceed the amount needed and become the needless slauter of living beings to satisfy the cravings of a learned appitite? I can't believe that the amount of meat eaten by most human meat eaters is needed. However, perhaps so. Maybe death by heart disease is part of natures plan. I would sincerely like to read more information about these needed elements that are found only in meat. Would you please provide me with somewhere to find this info? Thanks, Tim > On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:14:03 +0000, Bob Brenchley. > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > then. > ~Ed~ How about if we get a cow's perspective on this issue? Listen to this: http:\\www.iwo.com/gateway.htm >How about if we get a cow's perspective on this issue? Listen to this: > >http:\\www.iwo.com/gateway.htm Hehehe... I know you probably won't agree, Tim, but I think cows are meant to be food. I help out with spring calving and vaccinations at a friend's cattle farm each year... Cows, by and large, are mean (I got tossed over a 3-rail fence a few years back, and have been kicked a dozen times) and dim to the point of being magically stupid. This is all a product of breeding for the most part. We don't want food animals to be all that bright. But when my buddy pays me off in fresh steaks, I eat them with what could almost be called a vengence... I will try to find you the articles on trace minerals, and the roles that they believed to play... Incidentally, I do agree that given the way we prepare meat, our overall environmental situations, and general lack of fitness (at least in the USA here), we eat way more meat than is strictly necessary, especially if you're a bean/legume fan... ~Ed~ "If it doesn't hurt, I'm not doing you any good." > >How about if we get a cow's perspective on this issue? Listen to this: > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > is strictly necessary, especially if you're a bean/legume fan... > ~Ed~ Ed, cows are meant to be food by who? I can understand the belief if you belive that any of the versions of God that are put forth are the reason for eating cows. I don't believe that the natural termination of a bovine life is that of food for humans. For lions, and other wild animals, yes. For primitive humans, yes. But used as a staple, it is very very bad for humans. If needed as a only source for trace nutrients, then so be it. Using todays technology, we could easily create meat cells that would have no brain or memory and package this product in all of it's flavors. Steak no longer has to come from a living cow. The process isn't used because of the economic impact that a diversion from the meat producers would cause. I can understand this. I would like to see a gradual trend in that direction, and I think that it has started. By the way, as an aside to Bob, lighten up man. The angry cow thing was meant as a tounge in cheek joke. If you take the time to get to know me, you'll find that I'm neither shallow nor grossly ignorant. I'm pretty sure that you also are not either. Ed, I look forward to recieving the articles. Thanks for your effort. Tim ~ On the keyboard of life, I always keep one finger on the escape key. >How about if we get a cow's perspective on this issue? Listen to this: A cow does not have a perspective on anything. SignatureBob. You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your friends so they may learn as well. |
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