 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsGeneral TopicsCat AnecdotesHealth and BehaviorRescue CatKB.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Cat Forum / General Topics / April 2004"The Russian Blue" book, anyone?
Hi all, Does anybody have a copy of the "The Russian Blue Cat" book by Ingeborg Urcia that they are willing to give away for money (i.e. sell :)? I know that it's kind of unlikely because if you do have the book then you are probably a Russian Blue fan, and then chances of you selling it out are close to zero, but I want it so much (my friend would be so happy!) that thought I would try anyway. Needless to say IMO the book is worth much more than it was sold for in stores, and I will be happy to back up this statement when it's time to pay. Please email me at russian_blue@mywikinet.com if you are interested. Yours hopingly, Aleksey I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part Russian Blue, after having to put down our 18 year old cat. She was a shelter cat and had free run of the shelter, so she was lonely and we got a 4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right off the bat and ambushed her constantly. They got along and played alot, but I know there were times when she was not at all happy with the constant ambushing. We also have 2 Labrador Retrievers and I believe Morris thinks he's a dog and gets along famously with them. Anyway, the female cat disappeared about 2 months ago. Morris is about a year old now and he's really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether it's better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan > I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for > years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > he's a dog and gets along famously with them. Anyway, the female cat > disappeared about 2 months ago. After reading that, "cat disappeared about 2 months ago", mabye you shouldn't have cats. >Morris is about a year old now and he's > really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether it's > better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are > neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan > After reading that, "cat disappeared about 2 months ago", mabye you > shouldn't have cats. Aha, that kind of retarded response shows you are most probably Bob Brenchley. (or at the very least his sockpuppet). You appear to be suffering from multiple personality disorder! Tired of being killfiled by everyone are we Bob? IDIOT! *PLONK* > > After reading that, "cat disappeared about 2 months ago", mabye you > > shouldn't have cats. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > *PLONK* Maybe you should heed your own advice. What does this have to do with the original post? > > > After reading that, "cat disappeared about 2 months ago", mabye you > > > shouldn't have cats. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Maybe you should heed your own advice. What does this have to do with the > original post? Oh dear, it seems Bobby Brenchley has 3 "alter-egos" (or 2 identical sockpuppets!) Unfortunately, they are all as stupid as the other! Tired of being killfiled by everyone are we Bob/J Harmeson/Nina S? Welcome to mine FUCKWIT! *PLONK* P.S. For your information, retard, I responded to the OP by email. So f.ck YOU! > > After reading that, "cat disappeared about 2 months ago", mabye you > > shouldn't have cats. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > *PLONK* Brenchley = Anonymous excuse me? I particularly resent the tone of your statement! There are no pets on earth that are treated better than ours. They're our children. Good people's KIDS sometimes disappear also. If this is the welcome I get to this group then I guess I'll stay out! Susan -- CAMERON'S RESTAURANT FEATURED IN SEPT. 2001 SKIING MAGAZINE 57 Saranac Ave. Lake Placid, NY 12946 518 523-7872 ofriends@capital.net www.cameronsrestaurant.com 518 523-7872 > I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for > years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are > neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan Cat disappeared how? Was it an outside cat? (If so, why would you want a pet you let go outside? That isn't a pet, that's a boarder.) Once they are neutered, it doesn't often much matter. Though I personally have found that, if you are going ot have 2 cats only, it's often better to have same sex, or at least, litter mates. LT I beg your pardon, but it IS a pet. Some people's pets go outside. Read my reply to Donald Ferrt. I wasn't expecting unsolicited advice or a debate about having indoor or outdoor cats. Also, thank you for your advice on the question I did ask, you all have been very helpful. SC > I beg your pardon, but it IS a pet. Some people's pets go outside. Read my > reply to Donald Ferrt. I wasn't expecting unsolicited advice or a debate > about having indoor or outdoor cats. Also, thank you for your advice on the > question I did ask, you all have been very helpful. > SC Excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me. LT -- . Any thoughts? > Plenty. First, what happened to the female rescue? Did you ever find out? This is only one of many reasons my cats, all 6 of them, stay indoors. No unexplained disappearances. Maybe this is something you should consider before adopting another. They are so much safer and healthier that way. As for the sex, I don't think it really matters. I would look for one who has lived with other cats, (and possibly dogs), and is within close age to Morris. It's been my experience that males tend to be a bit more affectionate than females, but this is not always the case. I have met a couple females who were total love bugs. Nina We have had two female cats living together for about 14 years. Actually we started with one female tabby about 10 years old then we got a female kitten Manx and they lived together for about ten years until the older one passed away.We then took in our daughters cat for about two years. This was a male tabby and they got along great. Four years ago we adopted a black Bobtail female. Both are about the same age. What we have found is with the female cats one of them is always trying to be the boss no matter what. First its one then the other. Makes for some interesting scenes. When we had both a male and female cat they got along fine but there was alot of rough housing. Two cats in the same house should be no problem as long as follow a few simple steps. Two litter boxes two food bowls. Just be prepared for each of them trying to own out. > I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for > years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are > neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan > I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for > years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are > neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan Lonely cat? How can you tell? Often you will get more problems with getting another cat! I keep mine in the house and an enclosure attached to the house! Have 5 cats. The Young male oftens interacts to the young female. She will play sometimes and scratch his eyes sometimes also! Never had a cat alone I would say was lonely! Thanks for the help - your advice has been great. Elsa disappeared October 5 and was never seen again. We have a neighbor whose cat disappeared about a year ago and 5 months later, CAME BACK. ----- I say Morris is lonely because of the way he behaves - bored despite TONS of toys and even playing with the 2 dogs. As far as having cats that go outside, I know this sounds like a bad idea to some, but to others, keeping an animal captive in the house sounds cruel. I guess it's just a matter of opinion and I certainly would never force my opinion on others. I don't give unsolicited advice. We live deep in the woods and had an INDOOR/OUTDOOR cat for 18 years. He was perfectly healthy until renal failure was killing him. Our cats are never left outside on their own for long periods. They're never out at night and when no one is home they are in, and they are checked up on regularly when out. In the winter they don't WANT to go out for more than a minute or two. If I lived in a metro area, or close to a highway or where there was great danger I wouldn't own a cat. (I'm not saying others shouldn't, just that I wouldn't want to.) They are much happier being able to go out and run and play and climb trees and go for walks in the woods with the dogs and us. They even prefer to do their business outside in the woods, so litter box is very seldom used. They don't get fat and lazy because they get such alot of exercise. Anyway, we have picked out another cat at the shelter and will pick him up tomorrow. 7 month old male grey tiger - lots of spunk, not afraid of dogs and loves other cats. I'll let you know how they're doing. Susan -- CAMERON'S RESTAURANT FEATURED IN SEPT. 2001 SKIING MAGAZINE 57 Saranac Ave. Lake Placid, NY 12946 518 523-7872 ofriends@capital.net www.cameronsrestaurant.com 518 523-7872t After reading that, I recant my post dated 02/12/2003. Thanks Susan. Nice restaurant, too bad I live 4078 KM (2533 miles) away. Thank you! Wow, 2533 miles - where do you live?? S -- CAMERON'S RESTAURANT FEATURED IN SEPT. 2001 SKIING MAGAZINE 57 Saranac Ave. Lake Placid, NY 12946 518 523-7872 ofriends@capital.net www.cameronsrestaurant.com 518 523-7872 > I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for > years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are > neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan PS = Pics of my outside cat enclosure: http://wolfbat359.com/Catty.html Susan, I'm new as well to this group...and while I don't let my cats out (big city), I have no problem with other people doing it. Cats are the least domesticated of the 'domestic' animals - and as Kipling said, (paraphrased) "And she walked by herself." Ce la vie. Anyway, back to the original question: I've had nine cats over the years....generally I find that having a male, and then getting a female is the way to go. Right now I have four cats: three males and a much older female, who doesn't get along with anyone - her buddy, another female, died recently...so she's hanging on her own - with me. Typically, if you have more than two males there might be a dominance issue - but if they are around the same age, and neutered, they generally work it out. Sometimes, as with dogs, you can establish who you want to be No. 1 and No. 2 - through feeding, grooming, and playing priority (no. 1 first, etc.). If you get another cat - I would advise establishing your first cat as the dominant cat in the house or yard. That sets the ground rules - and getting a kitten (or a cat less than a year old - not necessarily a just weened kitten) is ideal. Then they do look 'up' to the older cat. Not sure what happened with answering someone's inquiry straight-forward....but with most newsgroups, I've found this to be an ongoing issue - it seems some of the posters need to establish 'dominance' .... Just ignore the "troll"esque threads - and read the ones that stay on topic to the post. I hope this long-winded, albeit belated...post helps... Sincerely, Melissa > I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for > years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are > neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan <you can establish who you want to be No. 1 and No. 2 - through feeding, grooming, and playing priority (no. 1 first, etc.). Thats all fine and dandy, but how do you establish which one gets to be the first target? > Susan, > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are > > neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan Sorry to go off the intended topic of this thread, but some of the replies to the original post make me feel the need to speak up. I have been signed up to the cats group for several months now, and have often come across similar closed-minded criticism against cat owners who let their pets go outside. Terms such as 'cruel' and 'uncaring' are used against these owners, with terms like 'safe' and 'happier' used to describe the life of an indoor cat. How about 'boring' and 'sedentary'? I believe it is unfair to keep any animal confined to a small space. Seen the large cats pacing unhappily at the zoo recently? If given the choice themselves, how many cats do you think would choose to live wholly indoors, and not want to explore and sniff things and chase things outside? It is quite unrealistic to think that an enquistive opportunistic predator like the domestic cat can be mentally healthy while imprisioned. My cat has a cat door, and can choose whether she wants to be in or out. She let us know early on that she wanted to go outside, by trying to get out the back door whenever we went out. I was initially nervous when she went outside, but then when I saw how much happier she was having the freedom to decide for herself where she wanted to be. Now I could never keep her completely cooped up in the house. I would rather not have an animal at all then keep it in conditions that are more designed to meet my selfish needs than theirs. Whose needs are more important, yours or theirs? > I would rather not have an animal at all then keep it in conditions > that are more designed to meet my selfish needs than theirs. Whose > needs are more important, yours or theirs? I see you live in New Zealand. Wonderful country, with very little people and lots of room for cats to roam around safely. No predators either. Sounds like a great place for cats! Not all of us live in such places. Some of us live in large cities, with lots of busy streets filled with cars. Guess who wins when a car meets a cat on the road? Others live where there are coyotes and other predators that would love to make a meal out of our loved cats. If you ever travel to Texas, give me a call. I would love to show you my home, with our 7 indoor-only cats. You can judge by yourself if they are "bored", "sedentary" or in any way unhappy. Cheers.  SignatureVictor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com > I see you live in New Zealand. Wonderful country, with very little > people and lots of room for cats to roam around safely. No predators [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > home, with our 7 indoor-only cats. You can judge by yourself if they are > "bored", "sedentary" or in any way unhappy. Totally agreed, Victor. Indoor cats may have a very rich, and not to mention long, and good life. Most indoor cats live longer than outdoor cats, just because the are safe from the mentioned dangers. And they may have an even better life if they are two or more. I am out of the house about 10 hours a day, and I know that my cats are happy with eachother's company while I'm away, even if I suspect they spend most of the time sleeping... My cats are Devon Rex, and here in Norway it's better to prepare them to be indoor cats all their lives. The winters are cold and snowy, and these cats, skinny, with short and thin fur, would be in danger of freezing to death within short time. In summer, they can get fatal sunburns when exposed to the sun. So the solution then would be to let them out on April 25th and September 15th, when the weather conditions could be suitable. :-) SignatureHans It is about -10C (12.2F) cold today... > > I would rather not have an animal at all then keep it in conditions > > that are more designed to meet my selfish needs than theirs. Whose [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > home, with our 7 indoor-only cats. You can judge by yourself if they are > "bored", "sedentary" or in any way unhappy. So do you think it fair on the cats to keep them indoors just because *you* choose to live in a city..? Ivor > So do you think it fair on the cats to keep them indoors just because > *you* choose to live in a city..? In case you are interested, there are papers out there done by veterinary behaviorists that have determined that indoor-only cats are as happy as indoor-outdoor cats. My cats are my family, and I provide for them the absolute best. Indoor cats live longer, healthier lives. SignatureVictor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com > > I see you live in New Zealand. Wonderful country, with very little > > people and lots of room for cats to roam around safely. No predators > > either. Sounds like a great place for cats! Yes, we do have relatively few people in New Zealand, but most of those that we do have are still concentrated in cities. There certainly are places here where I would simply not have a cat because of the risk of traffic. As I said before, under these circumstances I'd rather not have a pet, or chose a pet better suited to being trapped in a house all its life. Like mice or rats, and even rabbits and guinea pigs can be kept indoors. Cats are too intelligent and too inquisitive to keep penned up like that. I still honestly believe that any cat would be happier with the option to go outside, and that no cat in the world would opt to stay permanantly indoors if given the choice. If you leave your back door open, do your cats chose not to go out through it? As said by Ivor: "So do you think it fair on the cats to keep them indoors just because *you* choose to live in a city..?" Just because you live in an environment not suited for an animal doesn't give you the right to keep it under sub-optimal conditions. Just because you want a pet, it doesn't mean that you should have it. Great!. Write and tell us about when you find their dead, broken bodies on the highway. >> > I see you live in New Zealand. Wonderful country, with very little >> > people and lots of room for cats to roam around safely. No predators [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >doesn't give you the right to keep it under sub-optimal conditions. >Just because you want a pet, it doesn't mean that you should have it. > inquisitive to keep penned up like that. I still honestly believe that > any cat would be happier with the option to go outside, and that no > cat in the world would opt to stay permanantly indoors if given the > choice. If you leave your back door open, do your cats chose not to go > out through it? Xoxo, our oldest and former outdoors-only cat (we rescued him) has never shown any desire to go outside. He's been out and he didn't like it one bit. You see, it's much more comfortable inside. I see you chose to ignore the part where I mentioned there's research out there that proves that indoor-only cats are as happy as their indoor-outdoor counterparts. Good for you. You keep repeating your truth to yourself and avoid any facts that might contradict you. Cheers. SignatureVictor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com >> inquisitive to keep penned up like that. I still honestly believe that >> any cat would be happier with the option to go outside, and that no >> cat in the world would opt to stay permanantly indoors if given the >> choice. If you leave your back door open, do your cats chose not to go >> out through it? Sorry to piggyback, but my newsreader didn't get the OP. I have two indoors-only cats that get to go outside on their harnesses. While they love going outside, I can leave the door open and they do not go out on their own. They sit at the threshold and look out, but have no interest in leaving. Orchid See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid > > inquisitive to keep penned up like that. I still honestly believe that > > any cat would be happier with the option to go outside, and that no [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > indoor-outdoor counterparts. Good for you. You keep repeating your truth > to yourself and avoid any facts that might contradict you. Research is like statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the person presenting it wants it to prove. I still and will always maintain a cat should be allowed to do as it pleases, if it wants to go out, it should be allowed to. If you don't want it to, or you live in an area where it is *unsafe* for a cat to be outside, you should not have one. Ivor > Research is like statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the person > presenting it wants it to prove. I take it your not a scientist. I am. > I still and will always maintain a cat should be allowed to do as it > pleases, if it wants to go out, it should be allowed to. If you don't want > it to, or you live in an area where it is *unsafe* for a cat to be > outside, you should not have one. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Misguided as it might be. Cheers. SignatureVictor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com > > Research is like statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the person > > presenting it wants it to prove. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Misguided as it might be. As are you to yours. I just feel sorry for all those cats worldwide effectively kept prisoner for such opinions. Ivor > > Research is like statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the person > > presenting it wants it to prove. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Cheers. He's Benchley in disguise and not a good one LT >> > Research is like statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the person >> > presenting it wants it to prove. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >LT Stupid Troll. SignatureBob. Your IQ score is 2 (it takes 3 to grunt). Your answering machine is stuck on you. LT >Your answering machine is stuck on you. > >LT Stupid Troll! SignatureBob. Your IQ score is 2 (it takes 3 to grunt). > >Your answering machine is stuck on you. > > > >LT > > Stupid Troll! Yawn. LT -- >> >Your answering machine is stuck on you. >> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >LT Do shut up you stupid troll. SignatureBob. I read your mind, and believe me, it was a short story... Victor, firstly, in reply to your earlier comment ("I see you chose to ignore the part where I mentioned there's research out there that proves that indoor-only cats are as happy as their indoor-outdoor counterparts"), my reply to your earlier post was written and submitted before this reply regarding papers was posted by you. Unfortunately, my posts seem to take several hours to actually come up on the group. So I did not chose to "ignore" your statement, I had in fact not yet read it. But in reply to that now, I agree with Ivor: "Research is like statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the person presenting it wants it to prove". Research can always be biased if the scientist enters the research with their mind already made up. Experiments can often be designed to give one result over another, if the scientist wants their beliefs to be supported. > I take it your not a scientist. I am. You claim to know more than him because you are a scientist, but funnily enough so am I. And any good scientist would know that all papers should be read with a critical, objective mind. Maybe there are papers saying indoor cats are as happy as outdoor ones, but until I myself have read them, and investigated the validity of their methods and results, I will chose to take your mention of them with a grain of salt. As to the cats that chose to not go out. Have you kept them indoors all their lives? Ever thought that maybe they're just too scared to go out? Both cats and dogs are inclined to fear what they are not exposed to during their childhood and adolescence. Just like humans-who often fear dogs if not exposed to them while growing up. >Victor, firstly, in reply to your earlier comment ("I see you chose >to ignore the part where I mentioned there's research out there that >proves that indoor-only cats are as happy as their indoor-outdoor >counterparts"), Liar! SignatureBob. The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be summed up in one word -- YOU. > papers should be read with a critical, objective mind. Maybe there are > papers saying indoor cats are as happy as outdoor ones, but until I > myself have read them, and investigated the validity of their methods > and results, I will chose to take your mention of them with a grain of > salt. Absolutely! Go read them. All written by the best animal behaviorists both in the US and abroad. I have yet to see one arriving at the opposite conclusion though. > As to the cats that chose to not go out. Have you kept them indoors > all their lives? Ever thought that maybe they're just too scared to go > out? Both cats and dogs are inclined to fear what they are not exposed One of them used to live outdoors before we rescued him. He's the one that seem to be the least interested in going out. For a while we tried the leashes for giving them walkies, but they didn't enjoy it that much. We have a pack of very healthy, clean, happy cats. They are sweethearts that do not have any destructive behaviors (a telltale sign of a disgruntled cat). They are extremely outgoing, active, and loving. Our vet thinks they are the sweetest, best behaved cats she's ever met. I think we're doing a good job raising them, and I expect to live with them for many, many years. Cheers. SignatureVictor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com In alt.pets.cats Ivor Jones <this.address@notvalid.inv> wrote: : I still and will always maintain a cat should be allowed to do as it : pleases, if it wants to go out, it should be allowed to. If you don't want : it to, or you live in an area where it is *unsafe* for a cat to be : outside, you should not have one. If a cat always did what it pleased, it sure would never be neutered. Aren't there several breeds that are domesticated to the point that they can't/won't defend themselves from other cats outside? > In alt.pets.cats Ivor Jones <this.address@notvalid.inv> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Aren't there several breeds that are domesticated to the point that > they can't/won't defend themselves from other cats outside? yes like the Ragdoll.... I used to let my old cat out as we lived away from busy roads, he used the dog flap so the cat and dogs could come in and out of the garden as they pleased 24/7, I had to move (personal reasons) and where I am now (no garden), no way could I let a cat out, but rather than keeping him in which I feel would be cruel to him, as he was used to being able to come and go as he pleased, I gave him to a close friend. He settled into her place just fine. >> In alt.pets.cats Ivor Jones <this.address@notvalid.inv> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >he pleased, I gave him to a close friend. He settled into her place just >fine. You are a genuine cat lover :) SignatureBob. Cat's motto: No matter what you've done wrong, always try to make it look like the dog did it. Jellicoe, If you could actually give the cat the facts.. ALL the facts, Im certain there isn't a cat in the world that would go outside. Cats aren't particularly fond of being chased by dogs, hit by cars, tortured by mean moronic people, getting caught in the rain, getting lost, wandering into a neighbors yard who just treated with pesticide or any of the other hundreds of other evils out there in the world. Sadly, too many cat owners aren't aware of their cats, and they do not provide enough mental and physical stimulation to keep them happy. Cats do NOT need to go outside to get the stimulation they need. My five have shown absolutely NO interest in going outside... including my eldest who used to. While still snuggled in a 'spider hole', "~*Connie*~" <no@spam.com> scribbled: >Jellicoe, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >neighbors yard who just treated with pesticide or any of the other hundreds >of other evils out there in the world. If Larry L'Orange doesn't get let out when HE wants out, he starts knocking things off shelves, until he does get let out. To reply by email, remove the XYZ. Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk. This sig censored by the Office of Home and Land Insecurity.... Jellico is totally correct. The ideal life for a cat, if it can be managed, is an indoor-outdoor life. Given the cat overpopulation problem. I would not go so far as to suggest that anyone who is in an urban environment shouldn't have a cat - a safe and loving home is always better than no home at all, but I, at least, would express regret if I were forced to keep my cats indoors 24/7. I have seen cats wary about going through doors to the outside when they are concerned whether or not the door will remain open for them to return. I have never seen a cat in my life that would not joyfully bound into a yard when it is no longer worried about that. Never, ever, ever. >Jellico is totally correct. The ideal life for a cat, if it can be >managed, is an indoor-outdoor life. Given the cat overpopulation >problem. I would not go so far as to suggest that anyone who is in an >urban environment shouldn't have a cat - a safe and loving home is >always better than no home at all, but I, at least, would express >regret if I were forced to keep my cats indoors 24/7. There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7. There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat. >I have seen cats wary about going through doors to the outside when >they are concerned whether or not the door will remain open for them >to return. I have never seen a cat in my life that would not joyfully >bound into a yard when it is no longer worried about that. Never, >ever, ever. I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors 24/7. It took, in some cases, several months to get them happy with going outside - but the effort was well rewarded with their greater quality of life. SignatureBob. 1 cat + 1 revolving door to garden + 1 dynamo = Free energy. > I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term > fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors > 24/7. It took, in some cases, several months to get them happy with > going outside - but the effort was well rewarded with their greater > quality of life. Stupid troll. LT >> I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term >> fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >LT Stupid Troll! SignatureBob. If brains were taxed, you would get a rebate. > >> I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term > >> fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Stupid Troll! Yawn. LT > > >> I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term > > >> fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > LT TROLLLLLL.... TROOOLLLLLL IN THE NEWSGROUP.... TROOLLLLLL!!!! Tina > > Yawn. > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Tina Ja think? Benchley has been savaging people in the newsgroup for years. LT >> > Yawn. >> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >LT Do shut up you stupid troll. SignatureBob. I read your mind, and believe me, it was a short story... >> >> I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term >> >> fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >LT Very stupid troll. SignatureBob. I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public. > There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7. > There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat. In your opinion. In my opinion and millions of other cat owners, it's a blessing to a cat to have a nice comfortable home with loving people and other animals to play with. They don't have to worry about getting run over by humans or abused by human kids or aimed at by weird people who even brag about thier effort. They are protected from the parasites like fleas, worms and ticks. They can eat a strict, healthy diet without worrying about some butthead poisening them. And last but not least, it is a proven fact that a 24/7 inside cat will live almost twice as long as an outside cat because of the above mentioned dangers to outside cats. Bob, do you wear leather? Wool? Do you eat animal flesh? If you do, then I say you are an animal abuser. When is the last time you ate some veal..baby cow? Do you eat unborn chickens? Yeah, I bet you do. Thats discusting. You eat bread? You do know that unborn chickens are used in that nasty stuff don't you? After seeing your waistline, I can imagine how many deserts you've eaten with the massive amounts of milk that was intended by nature to be eaten by the little veal producers you call supper. If you are not a strict vegitarian and do not use or consume ANY animal parts, then you are a hypocrite and an animal abuser in the worst sense. What makes cats the only creature you protect? You are so full of crap. > >I have seen cats wary about going through doors to the outside when > >they are concerned whether or not the door will remain open for them [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > going outside - but the effort was well rewarded with their greater > quality of life. >> There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7. >> There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat. > >In your opinion. No, not in my opinion - in the opinion of most of the world's leading cat experts. >In my opinion and millions of other cat owners, it's >a blessing to a cat to have a nice comfortable home with loving people >and other animals to play with. Of course it is - but it is also a basic necessity in a cat's life to have time outside. > They don't have to worry about getting >run over by humans That risk may be large in some areas, though not in most. Where it is it would not be a suitable place to keep cats. > or abused by human kids or aimed at by weird people Both, thankfully, VERY rare. >who even brag about thier effort. They are protected from the >parasites like fleas, No, even indoor only cats get fleas. > worms and ticks. They can eat a strict, healthy >diet without worrying about some butthead poisening them. And last but >not least, it is a proven fact that a 24/7 inside cat will live almost >twice as long as an outside cat because of the above mentioned dangers >to outside cats. No it isn't. That is a blatant lie that can be disproved so very easily. There is little, if indeed any, difference in the life expectancy of an indoor only cat and an indoor/outdoor cat. >Bob, do you wear leather? Wool? Do you eat animal flesh? If you do, >then I say you are an animal abuser. When is the last time you ate >some veal..baby cow? Leather and wool are byproducts, wool does not even result in the death of the animal. I eat very little meat and certainly not veal. However, in all cases I promote the correct housing and treatment of animals - their quality of life is important. >Do you eat unborn chickens? No. > Yeah, I bet you do. Thats discusting. You >eat bread? You do know that unborn chickens are used in that nasty >stuff don't you? No they are not. >After seeing your waistline, I can imagine how many deserts you've >eaten with the massive amounts of milk that was intended by nature to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >animal parts, then you are a hypocrite and an animal abuser in the >worst sense. Not at all. While it is sad that animals dies to feed people, as long as they are kept in suitable conditions and killed humanely it is not cruel. Keeping a cat indoors 24/7 is CRUEL. >What makes cats the only creature you protect? You are so full of >crap. Cat are NOT the only creature I protect - In some ways I even protect animal abusers like you as I do not believe in the death penalty - just life in prison. I repeat. If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being cruel, selfish, or both. I think you posts prove you are both. SignatureBob. Light travels faster than sound. This is why you appear bright until we hear you talk. > > >> There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > No, not in my opinion - in the opinion of most of the world's leading > cat experts. No it isn't. You don't know what you're talking about. I will give you the actual information. "Cats who live solely outdoors live about three to five years on average, while the average life expectancy of indoor cats is 14 years or longer." Everyone on the group can go to: http://petplace.netscape.com/articles/artShow.asp?artID=1726 and see the real data. Let's see, 1200 of the top vets in the US and Canada use a site that promotes inside living for cats. I see that your little island isn't mentioned. Oh, thats right, Canada and the US both surpass your backwards little island in technology. No wonder your empire is now so tiny. > >In my opinion and millions of other cat owners, it's > >a blessing to a cat to have a nice comfortable home with loving people > >and other animals to play with. > > Of course it is - but it is also a basic necessity in a cat's life to > have time outside. No it isn't. A domesicated feline isn't even aware that there is such a thing as "outside" until it experiences it. It's not part of any domesticated felines basics. The instinctual flight or fright coding that is part of every animals brain functions does not include a memory of "Outside". Just the same as a television with a human. You can't miss what you have never experienced. > > They don't have to worry about getting > >run over by humans > > That risk may be large in some areas, though not in most. Where it is > it would not be a suitable place to keep cats. In todays socity, it is no longer suitable or humane to allow a pet cat to ever go outside without careful consideration. Your fantasy of the "wild cat" as out of date as your monarchy. > > or abused by human kids or aimed at by weird people > > Both, thankfully, VERY rare. Not rare at all. You don't know what you're talking about again. > >who even brag about thier effort. They are protected from the > >parasites like fleas, > > No, even indoor only cats get fleas. I've had cats indoors only for 30 years and have never had any flea problem. Of course, you have to treat your house so fleas that humans bring in will die. None of my cats have ever had a flea on them. > > worms and ticks. They can eat a strict, healthy > >diet without worrying about some butthead poisening them. And last but [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > easily. There is little, if indeed any, difference in the life > expectancy of an indoor only cat and an indoor/outdoor cat. What crap! You are the liar. I've shown my proof above. You just talk. > >Bob, do you wear leather? Wool? Do you eat animal flesh? If you do, > >then I say you are an animal abuser. When is the last time you ate > >some veal..baby cow? > > Leather and wool are byproducts, Byproducts? You are really in la la land buddy. Do you think that leather is only harvested from cows that die from old age? You think that scaring a sheep out of it's mind, flipping it around and shaving all of it's natual protection from it's body is not cruel to the sheep? Where the hell do you get your idea of fairness, from the butcher shop where the corpses of perfectly happy living cows are ground into a paste of flesh that you stick into your mouth? wool does not even result in the > death of the animal. I eat very little meat and certainly not veal. Oh, so if you eat the flesh of just a few murdered animals it's ok? Thats like someone saying "Well, I only murdered a few people, there are lots of others". You talk out of both sides of your mouth man. > However, in all cases I promote the correct housing and treatment of > animals - their quality of life is important. Bullshit! Start talking to the people who provide you with your nasty flesh eating supply of murdered animals. Go to a slauter house. See how fair it is then. > >Do you eat unborn chickens? > > No. You've never eaten an egg huh? Liar. > > Yeah, I bet you do. Thats discusting. You > >eat bread? You do know that unborn chickens are used in that nasty > >stuff don't you? > > No they are not. You are too stupid to realize that eggs are used in the processing of breads and cakes? > >After seeing your waistline, I can imagine how many deserts you've > >eaten with the massive amounts of milk that was intended by nature to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > as they are kept in suitable conditions and killed humanely it is not > cruel. It's not cruel because bobby wants to eat the flesh of animals. Yeah right! How can one KILL an animal for the sole purpose of eating it's flesh and call it humane? You are as perverted as anyone who is a flesh eater. You justify your sick cravings as being normal. Like I said, go to a slauter house just before your next meal of hot cooked flesh and see if you still want to eat like a caveman. > Keeping a cat indoors 24/7 is CRUEL. NO IT'S NOT! To shorten their happy little lives by two thirds by letting them go out into the world that humans have made into a cesspool is cruel. You are cruel. Stop it! Take the crown off of your stupid little british head and try to educate yourself into the correct century. > >What makes cats the only creature you protect? You are so full of > >crap. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I think you posts prove you are both. I don't care what a perverted flesh eater like you thinks of how I treat animals. Hell man, you eat them. You condone the murder of millions of animals each day. It is NEVER ok to let your cat outside. To do so are being cruel, selfish, or both. Your posts show you to be ignorant, cruel, selfish and stupid. Stop trying to convert decent people into your sick way of life. On 8 Jan 2004 09:29:32 -0800, in article <5d054692.0401080929.2b6d9c53@posting.google.com>, > I see that >your little island isn't mentioned. Oh, thats right, Canada and the US >both surpass your backwards little island in technology. No wonder >your empire is now so tiny. *sigh* And you started off so well! You had some excellent points to make but you're xenophobic comments just made you come across as a racist and a bigot. You should get that xenophobia treated. (snipped Everything it was dumb) Okay why do you think god put all these animals on earth? To eat. Cows are here to eat. Chickens are here to eat and give us eggs. Do you think cows are here to deplete the ozone layer with their farty gas? Is that why their here? If you want to fight something how about extinction? People kill gorrila's for bush meat. Or how about people killing tiger's for their fur? Why not let people be people and not get on their backs about eating meat. The sheep need to be sheared in the summer otherwise they get to hot. People long ago figured that out. What about the vegtables you eat. Do you think they like to be eaten? They probably have feelings to you know they grow. Just go on what you believe and stop trying to push it on other people. It's okay to let your cat outside as long as it's in a controled environment. Some people build cat cages, some leash train their cats , some who have big properties let them out to roam. You have to remember that cats used to be wild before the Egyptians took em in and domesticated them. That's my piece. Tina >(snipped Everything it was dumb) > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Tina There is not now, nor has there ever been, a need to bring a non-existant omnipotent being into the picture. It is true that we don't need very much meat. Between 2 and 15 million years of evolution have developed man as an omnivore. We cannot live a healthy life on just vegetables alone, nor can we live on just meat alone. We need both to live a long and healthy life. Cat need time outside, with the freedom to roam. The need to be part of nature and to interact with other cats as they are highly social animals. You cannot take any animal, including man, and divorce him from his nature without side effects. SignatureBob. A cat without claws is the result of a vet without scruples and an owner without low. >> >> >> There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >No it isn't. Yes it is. > You don't know what you're talking about. Having spent over 40 years with cats I can ignore your false opinion. > I will give you >the actual information. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >and see the real data. Let's see, 1200 of the top vets in the US and >Canada use a site that promotes inside living for cats. Only 1200? There are 10 times more than that who promote another form of abuse - declawing. Come back when you have some credible experts - American vets are mostly money grabbing animal killers. > I see that >your little island isn't mentioned. Oh, thats right, Canada and the US >both surpass your backwards little island in technology. Hohohohoho! > No wonder >your empire is now so tiny. We don't have an Empire, we have a Commonwealth of Nations which includes Canada. >> >In my opinion and millions of other cat owners, it's >> >a blessing to a cat to have a nice comfortable home with loving people [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >No it isn't. A domesicated feline isn't even aware that there is such >a thing as "outside" until it experiences it. I'm sure you think you are making a point there - but you fail. Do you believe that children should be kept indoors 24/7? Or maybe that women should not be allowed the freedom to roam? > It's not part of any >domesticated felines basics. You seem to labour under a major misconception there moron. The is NO difference, not even a little tiny difference, between your so-called "domesticated feline" and it wild ancestor. > The instinctual flight or fright coding >that is part of every animals brain functions does not include a >memory of "Outside". Just the same as a television with a human. You >can't miss what you have never experienced. Animals, including humans, do - because it is part of our nature. >> > They don't have to worry about getting >> >run over by humans [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >In todays socity, it is no longer suitable or humane to allow a pet >cat to ever go outside without careful consideration. Wrong. Apart from the USA there are very few parts of the world where this falsehood has gained any hold. In the UK, and most of the rest of Europe all but a tiny minority of cats get time outside during the day. The majority of the world's cats prove you wrong - learn from that. >Your fantasy of >the "wild cat" as out of date as your monarchy. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Not rare at all. You don't know what you're talking about again. As I said, both, thankfully, VERY rare. About as rare as brain cells in your head I think. >> >who even brag about thier effort. They are protected from the >> >parasites like fleas, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I've had cats indoors only for 30 years and have never had any flea >problem. Liar. >Of course, you have to treat your house so fleas that humans >bring in will die. None of my cats have ever had a flea on them. Liar! >> > worms and ticks. They can eat a strict, healthy >> >diet without worrying about some butthead poisening them. And last but [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >What crap! You are the liar. I've shown my proof above. You just talk. Your "proof"???? Pull the other one moron. >> >Bob, do you wear leather? Wool? Do you eat animal flesh? If you do, >> >then I say you are an animal abuser. When is the last time you ate [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >all of it's natual protection from it's body is not cruel to the >sheep? Certainly not, I've helped do it on many pet sheep. >Where the hell do you get your idea of fairness, from the >butcher shop where the corpses of perfectly happy living cows are [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Oh, so if you eat the flesh of just a few murdered animals it's ok? It is necessary for a proper diet. Man was not designed by millions of years of evolution to be a vegetarian. >Thats like someone saying "Well, I only murdered a few people, there >are lots of others". >You talk out of both sides of your mouth man. And you are stupid. >> However, in all cases I promote the correct housing and treatment of >> animals - their quality of life is important. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >You've never eaten an egg huh? Liar. No. I'm allergic to eggs. >> > Yeah, I bet you do. Thats discusting. You >> >eat bread? You do know that unborn chickens are used in that nasty [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >You are too stupid to realize that eggs are used in the processing of >breads and cakes? Eggs are NOT used in the making of bread - where did you learn to cook? >> >After seeing your waistline, I can imagine how many deserts you've >> >eaten with the massive amounts of milk that was intended by nature to [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >How can one KILL an animal for the sole purpose of eating it's flesh >and call it humane? Very easy. >You are as perverted as anyone who is a flesh eater. You justify your >sick cravings as being normal. Like I said, go to a slauter house just >before your next meal of hot cooked flesh and see if you still want to >eat like a caveman. I need to eat some meat to live - that is a fact of nature. >> Keeping a cat indoors 24/7 is CRUEL. > >NO IT'S NOT! Yes it is. >To shorten their happy little lives by two thirds by letting them go >out into the world that humans have made into a cesspool is cruel. It would be, if you live in such an area do not have cats. However, in most areas there is not difference in the life expectancy of a correctly kept indoor/outdoor cat, most live to a ripe old age. > You >are cruel. Stop it! Take the crown off of your stupid little british >head and try to educate yourself into the correct century. Unlike you I live in the 21st century - where we CARE for animals and want to give them a PROPER life. >> >What makes cats the only creature you protect? You are so full of >> >crap. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >It is NEVER ok to let your cat outside. To do so are being cruel, >selfish, or both. Look, just for you, as you clearly are a moron with reading difficulty, I'll spell it out one more time. Read it. Comprehend it. Learn from it. Then stop abusing you cats sicko. If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being cruel, selfish, or both. >Your posts show you to be ignorant, cruel, selfish and stupid. Stop >trying to convert decent people into your sick way of life. SignatureBob. 'The juvenile sea squirt wanders through the ocean searching for a suitable rock to cling to and make its home for life. When it finds its spot and takes root, it doesn't need its brain any more...so it eats it. Sounds rather like Tropical Tim.' > Your posts show you to be ignorant, cruel, selfish and stupid. Stop > trying to convert decent people into your sick way of life. Stop trying to reason with this guy. He lives in a parallel universe, where facts are whatever he imagines. Most of us simply ignore him. Add him to your killfile, it will dramatically reduce the noise to signal ratio in this group. Cheers. SignatureVictor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com > > Your posts show you to be ignorant, cruel, selfish and stupid. Stop > > trying to convert decent people into your sick way of life. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Cheers. How do you do that.. Add someone to your kill file? Tina > How do you do that.. Add someone to your kill file? It depends on the client you're using to read news. Check out the "filters" functionality of your client, probably under the Tools menu. SignatureVictor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com > > > Your posts show you to be ignorant, cruel, selfish and stupid. Stop > > > trying to convert decent people into your sick way of life. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Tina If you're using "Outlook Express" click on MESSAGE and then BLOCK SENDER. A box will come up, if you click YES then all posts by the offender should be wiped from you news reader. -- Chester http://chester_vaughn.tripod.com/ My psychiatrist said. . . "Positive results within a year, or your mania back." > > > > Your posts show you to be ignorant, cruel, selfish and stupid. Stop > > > > trying to convert decent people into your sick way of life. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > My psychiatrist said. . . > "Positive results within a year, or your mania back." Cool thanks I am using outlook express. Is there anyother program you can use? Download for free? Tina > Cool thanks I am using outlook express. Is there anyother program you can > use? Download for free? I use Mozilla Thunderbird (mozilla.com). SignatureVictor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com Tina Laitinen howled at the moon, then scrawled thusly upon the aether: > Cool thanks I am using outlook express. Is there anyother program you > can use? Download for free? > > Tina www.thefreesite.com has several links. Searching google (www.google.com) for "free newsreader" would probably get you quite a few programs to browse through as well. I'm personally a fan of Xnews (which has a very nice single-keystroke killfile) and Forte Free Agent (which doesn't have a killfile, but is easier to learn how to use than Xnews). Maeve Signaturethrow the baby out with the bathwater to reply by e-mail ~*~ http://volatiledreams.deep-ice.com ~*~ You're not right. You just *sound* right. >> Your posts show you to be ignorant, cruel, selfish and stupid. Stop >> trying to convert decent people into your sick way of life. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Cheers. Stupid Troll! SignatureBob. Your IQ score is 2 (it takes 3 to grunt). >"Cats who live solely outdoors live about three to five years on >average, while the average life expectancy of indoor cats is 14 years >or longer." So what's your point? Oh I see you are comparing stray cats to indoor cats. Strays are not fed regularly, they do not get medical care and they have to live outside when it's freezing. I am sure of lot of kittens from strays die in the first weeks which would definitely bring down the average. The outdoor-cat-people you are talking to here though, have cats that get fed, get medical care, have a warm place to sleep and all that. PLUS they get to go outside where their immune and cardiovascular systems are put to work. Personally I agree with Bob, although I would not use words as harsh as his. But I think it is horrible if a cat IN ITS WHOLE LIFE can never chase a butterfly, catch a bird, feel grass under their paws, smell the earth... JM > The outdoor-cat-people you are talking to here though, have cats that > get fed, get medical care, have a warm place to sleep and all that. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > JM Neither you nor Brenchley are the Cat Police. None of us owes anyone a defense of how we love our cats. LT >> The outdoor-cat-people you are talking to here though, have cats that >> get fed, get medical care, have a warm place to sleep and all that. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Neither you nor Brenchley are the Cat Police. None of us owes anyone >a defense of how we love our cats. Excuse me? What are you on about? 1) I am stating a personal opinion here, as you can read. 2) if a person makes a case that cats should not go outside, that is OK in your book, but if they believe the opposite, they are the Cat Police? Why is the opposite not true? Have you noticed how many people in here make accusations to people who let their cats outside? Can you please explain the differenceto me, as I don't get it at all. JM >> The outdoor-cat-people you are talking to here though, have cats that >> get fed, get medical care, have a warm place to sleep and all that. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Neither you nor Brenchley are the Cat Police. None of us owes anyone >a defense of how we love our cats. Or, in your case, how you take such sick delight in abusing your cats. I bet you lie awake at night thinking up new ways to hurt them? You are sick - as well as stupid. >LT Stupid Troll! SignatureBob. The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be summed up in one word -- YOU. > There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7. > There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat. Mousekateers Cattery, (http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/4114/kittens.html), sells cats and kittens to indoor homes only! Indoor cats have an average life expectancy of 15 years, but it is not unusual for them to live to 20 years. Outdoor cats have a life expectancy of only 1 to 3 years: They get hit by cars They are eaten by dogs, coyotes, even owls (small kittens) They are poisoned by eating toxic plants, licking antifreeze off their coats, or by getting into garages and eating toxic substances They are exposed to deadly viruses such as feline leukemia, feline aids, herpes and calici respiratory viruses, or distemper They can become infected with feline heart worm, tapeworms, roundworms, body mites, fleas, and other contagious parasites They are abused by mentally deranged people They become lost or are stolen Some end up in the pound and are euthanized >> There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7. >> There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Outdoor cats have a life expectancy of only 1 to 3 years: Hohohohohohoho! >They get hit by cars It does happen, though it is not that common. If it is a major risk in your are then do not have cats. >They are eaten by dogs, coyotes, even owls (small kittens) Oh dear - not another one falling for those old tales. >They are poisoned by eating toxic plants, Nope. A cat that grows up with nature does not do that. >licking antifreeze off their >coats, Nope - in most countries antifreeze is pet (and child) safe. You should get your country to pass laws to that effect. > or by getting into garages and eating toxic substances Like? >They are exposed to deadly viruses such as feline leukemia, feline >aids, herpes and calici respiratory viruses, or distemper True, but they are less at risk with a properly developed immune system - something an indoor only cat does not have. >They can become infected with feline heart worm, Not in most of the world. > tapeworms, >roundworms, body mites, fleas, and other contagious parasites All of which are easy to prevent. >They are abused by mentally deranged people Rare - VERY rare. >They become lost Most lost cats are indoor only ones that escape and then can't cope. > or are stolen Why would anyone want to steal a cat? >Some end up in the pound and are euthanized Not in civilized countries. SignatureBob. You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your friends so they may learn as well. > Indoor cats have an average life expectancy of 15 years, but it is not > unusual for them to live to 20 years. > > Outdoor cats have a life expectancy of only 1 to 3 years: I'm sorry, but that is simply not true. Maybe in some areas the life expectancy is lower because the hazards are so high, but then people in those areas shouldn't get cats. They should get indoor pets like rats. But in many places, the danger is not high, and the reward for indoor/outdoor living far outweigh the dangers. My partner's last indoor/outdoor cat lived for 18 years. My last one lived for 13, and only died due to kidney failure (which was likely genetic, and not as a result of any disease caught from being outside). Both cats were healthy and happy all their lives. And even if the life expectancy was a little less for indoor/outdoor cats than for indoor cats (which I don't believe is true), what about the quality of life? Would you want to spend your entire life without leaving the house you live in? A lot of humans die younger than the expected 70-80 years due to leaving the safety of their houses. Lets look at your list for a minute: > They get hit by cars Large numbers of people die in traffic accidents in cars, in planes, on bicycles, on motorbikes or even as pedestrians, > They are eaten by dogs, coyotes, even owls (small kittens) Humans get attacked by plenty of wild animals, including bears, sharks, snakes and crocodiles, > They are poisoned by eating toxic plants, licking antifreeze off their > coats, or by getting into garages and eating toxic substances Humans get food poisoning which can kill you, and human children often get sick from accidental consumption of poisonous substances kept in garages, > They are exposed to deadly viruses such as feline leukemia, feline > aids, herpes and calici respiratory viruses, or distemper Again, humans get all sorts of infectious diseases off eachother, many of which can kill you, > They can become infected with feline heart worm, tapeworms, > roundworms, body mites, fleas, and other contagious parasites Humans also suffer from many parasitic agents, often picked up when out in the garden enjoying nature, > They are abused by mentally deranged people Humans die or suffer horribly all the time at the hands of eachother. So by your logic, you should never leave the house either. So what I want to know is, when are you and your cat planning on moving into your sterile bubble together? > Maybe in some areas the life expectancy is lower because the hazards > are so high, but then people in those areas shouldn't get cats. They > should get indoor pets like rats. So, basically you are saying that the millions of cats, and kittens, brought to shelters every year should be euthanized simply because they had the bad luck of being born, or |
Enable EMail Alerts
Start New Thread
Reply to this Message