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our veggie cat

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Georg Naggies - 23 Sep 2003 11:30 GMT
hello !

I read this group for a while already and came to like it.
You people really like cats.

I have a cat question and now I thought I might as well ask the group...
and since I feel like writing, may I also ask if I may make it long?

Lest you should disagree, I provide a summary:

Short version: do you know of a way to make your cat pee in the box with
no litter in it, so that his urin can be collected for later
ph-analysis? Ours won't do it, and would rather pee somewhere else,
which he would never do under other circumstances.

Long version:

We got our "Elvis" a year ago when my sister could no longer care for
him, when he was 10 years old. We are both vegetarians, and I eat vegan,
so we weren't too fond of the idea of having a meat eater in the house
in the beginning, but since  there was no other way, we welcomed Elvis
as he was. Then Elvis' great charm, sensitivity, sincere sweetness and
some other most winning traits made it easy for us to get used to cat
food tins.

But still, soon enough we researched about vegan cats, then got the
appropriate supplement, and began cooking for him. This didn't work too
well, and he was back to supermarket fair soon. Then many month later we
found that some friends of us have a completely vegetarian little cat,
which greatly fired our resolve to put Elvis' on a healthier (both for
him and the slaughtered animal) diet.

Which works finally! Elvis eats what I cook for him, after some
experimentation with the recipes. Chick peas with yeast powder, Vegecat
supplement and a bit of tin food just so that he doesn't feel rushed in
his transformation. This is like three month already, and Elvis
looks great, has put the weight on again that he has lost during the
first weeks (1/2 a kilo for a seven kilo cat), and eats with appetite.
Comparing to the first attempt to put him on veggie diet, this time
there was only one person cooking & caring for him, which helped a lot,
'cause we got all confused when sometimes my wife and other times I were
cooking for him. This time I have the responsibility for cooking, and my
wife for cuddling & playing.

Now for vegetarian cats there is an increased risk for urinary stones,
since all vegetarian food is less acidic than meat fair. Therefore, I
have been to the vet, to have Elvis' risk assessed. There are like 10%
percent of all cats who are more prone to urinary stones, and to make
sure that Elvis isn't one of them, I'd like to have his urin tested. Vet
suggested to make him pee in the empty litter box, which he wouldn't do.
Would rather pee on towels than in an empty box.

here are some photos of Elvis:
http://www.georgs-home.com/gallery/Elvis

Cheerio Georg
m. L. Briggs - 25 Sep 2003 23:13 GMT
>hello !
>
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>If     he were in the wild he probably would eat vegs -- if he were starving to death. Otherwise, a nice bug, bird, worm or vole would be his preference.
>Why go against nature?
Dionysus - 26 Sep 2003 02:31 GMT
Okay. I'm curious, and I really DO want to know...

Are you also against declawing cats, while you're feeding your animal a
vegan diet?

Because if you're thinking that "Oh, no, I couldn't possibly declaw a cat"
and yet you're feeding your animal a vegan diet...well, let's put it this
way. Does your cat look like an herbivore - designed with multiple stomachs
to digest plant matter?

If you ask your veterinarian about whether this is healthy for the animal, I
would also like you to keep in mind this person spent 12 years of their life
studying animal physiology, and thus understands that your cat is A
CARNIVORE.

Personally, I would NEVER feed a cat a vegan or vegetarian diet, because
they require the enzymes. My cat gets raw calf's liver. I grew up on a farm
and had two cows "Cheeseburger" and "Rump Roast" as pets.

Let me illustrate another way. When my friend Rick, the die-hard vegan
decided that his pet cat was going to go vegan as well, he bought huge
amounts of VegePet food, the supplements, etc, etc.

Within two days Punkycat had caught and eaten six songbirds and four mice.
The songbirds she caught when she was roaming around outside because, as
Rick put it, "It's unnatural to keep animals indoors, man." The vegan food
sat untouched.

Either your cat has no tastebuds or simply has no clue what is healthy for
it. Your cat's urinating on towels INSTEAD of in the litter box is an
indication of two things - urinary tract infection and bad health choices.
The litter box is uncomfortable to pee in - therefore the cat chooses
somewhere else.

Please, put your own politics aside and feed your cat the things it is
supposed to eat FROM A PURELY BIOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE. I frankly don't care
if you decide to be vegan, but don't be surprised if Elvis comes home
dragging that beautiful meadowlark, half-eaten.

> >I read this group for a while already and came to like it.
> >You people really like cats.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> >ph-analysis? Ours won't do it, and would rather pee somewhere else,
> >which he would never do under other circumstances.

> >Long version:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> >suggested to make him pee in the empty litter box, which he wouldn't do.
> >Would rather pee on towels than in an empty box.
Georg Naggies - 26 Sep 2003 09:44 GMT
> Okay. I'm curious, and I really DO want to know...
>
> Are you also against declawing cats, while you're feeding your animal a
> vegan diet?

strictly against

> Because if you're thinking that "Oh, no, I couldn't possibly declaw a cat"
> and yet you're feeding your animal a vegan diet...well, let's put it this
> way. Does your cat look like an herbivore - designed with multiple stomachs
> to digest plant matter?

he isn't fed weed - what he gets is pure protein with some necessary
supplements

> If you ask your veterinarian about whether this is healthy for the animal, I
> would also like you to keep in mind this person spent 12 years of their life
> studying animal physiology, and thus understands that your cat is A
> CARNIVORE.

this comes down to the question what his natural food is - those tins he
was fed all his life aren't either, are they?

> Personally, I would NEVER feed a cat a vegan or vegetarian diet, because
> they require the enzymes. My cat gets raw calf's liver. I grew up on a farm
> and had two cows "Cheeseburger" and "Rump Roast" as pets.

so your cats natural prey is cattle? mighty cat that is.

sorry could not resist.

<vegan friend story snip>

> Either your cat has no tastebuds or simply has no clue what is healthy for
> it.

The yeast powder tastes fairly strongly - makes it enough palatable for
him.

> Your cat's urinating on towels INSTEAD of in the litter box is an
> indication of two things - urinary tract infection and bad health choices.
> The litter box is uncomfortable to pee in - therefore the cat chooses
> somewhere else.

Uh, misunderstanding. Never pees anywhere else but in the box, but when
there's no litter in it. There is no litter in it when I purposefully
don't put any inside in order to be able to collect his pee.

> Please, put your own politics aside and feed your cat the things it is
> supposed to eat FROM A PURELY BIOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE. I frankly don't care
> if you decide to be vegan, but don't be surprised if Elvis comes home
> dragging that beautiful meadowlark, half-eaten.

sure, but what is a pet cat's food from a biological perspective -
supposedly that what his wild ancestors in the Egyptian desert were
preying upon - desert mice & lizards. can't oblige with that kind of
fare from a practical view - so we compromise and still make him the
healthiest cat he can possibly be.

thanks for your concern for our cat - I know it is well-meant.

I just needed to let the group know that it is perfectly possible to
have a veggie cat. especially for those who would like to have one for
themselves. I admit our few month's experience is still pretty limited.
I'll honestly keep you (group) updated with any turns in the story, if
you are interested.

Best,
Georg

--
http://www.georgs-home.com
tortrix - 27 Sep 2003 02:33 GMT
> > Personally, I would NEVER feed a cat a vegan or vegetarian diet, because

Oh, suddenly you are going to get upset over nutritional
content if some people report that they can at least feed
THEIR cats a vegetarian diet?    How do you know you are
not killing your cat or dog every time you make small variations
in their diet, say from one brand of cat food to the next?
Sure, your cat thrived on one brand, but that is no guarantee
that the next brand won't kill them.

However, naturally, when someone mentions the word "vegan" or
"vegetarian", you have an irrational emotional response against it.

It is no more "politics" to want to save a few of
the animals whom your cat might eat than the cat him/herself.
YOU force YOUR politics on the cows and chickens. You DO have
the choice to euthanize your cat and save animals who might
be more intelligent, like pigs.

The choice is definitely NOT easy. But do not pretend that you
are not making it every time you feed your pet cat or dog.
elizabeth.johnson - 26 Sep 2003 07:02 GMT
Sorry, cats are 90 percent carnivorous.  Some enjoy the grasses, but you
won't change kitty's need for meat.

> >hello !
> >
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
> >
> >If     he were in the wild he probably would eat vegs -- if he were starving to death. Otherwise, a nice bug, bird, worm or vole would be his
preference.
> >Why go against nature?
tortrix - 03 Oct 2003 11:15 GMT
"elizabeth.johnson" <elizabeth.johnson@insightbb.com>
> Sorry, cats are 90 percent carnivorous.  Some enjoy the grasses, but you
> won't change kitty's need for meat.

Sorry, but obviously they are not, since people have proven their
cats can eat mostly a vegetarian diet. Yes -- they do need at least
eggs and milk, perhaps meat.  Perhaps 10% or 20% of their diet.
Maybe even 50%. But 50% is STILL not 90%.

And you STILL have a choice: euthanize your cat or save other animals.
JoeRaisin - 03 Oct 2003 20:55 GMT
> "elizabeth.johnson" <elizabeth.johnson@insightbb.com>
> > Sorry, cats are 90 percent carnivorous.  Some enjoy the grasses, but you
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> And you STILL have a choice: euthanize your cat or save other animals.

Two cat breeders are are talking.
The first one says, "I feed my cats only the best.  derived from natural
prey, painstakingly processed and supplemented with all the vitamins and
minerals they can use.  Its a little more expensive but I think the results
are worth it."
The second breeder says, "I just feed my cats cabbage."
The first one, shocked, says, "why, my cats would never even touch cabbage!"
To which the second says, "ya' know, neither would mine for about a
month..."
m. L. Briggs - 03 Oct 2003 21:24 GMT
>> "elizabeth.johnson" <elizabeth.johnson@insightbb.com>
>> > Sorry, cats are 90 percent carnivorous.  Some enjoy the grasses, but you
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>Good point!  Think they will get it?   MLB
elizabeth.johnson - 26 Sep 2003 07:02 GMT
Wring out the towel into the cup

> >hello !
> >
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
> >
> >If     he were in the wild he probably would eat vegs -- if he were starving to death. Otherwise, a nice bug, bird, worm or vole would be his
preference.
> >Why go against nature?
Dionysus - 26 Sep 2003 07:36 GMT
Uh...not to be snobbish, but dat be one ugly cat.

What happened to his head?

> Wring out the towel into the cup
>
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
> preference.
> > >Why go against nature?
Georg Naggies - 26 Sep 2003 09:45 GMT
> Uh...not to be snobbish, but dat be one ugly cat.
>
> What happened to his head?

No offence taken - we know he's not the most pretty cat.
When my sister was living in Istanbul for a year, Elvis was with her -
one day he escaped on to the street and fared badly against the Istanbul
street cats. His one eye was lost despite all the vet's efforts.
Van Iperen - 26 Sep 2003 10:46 GMT
> hello !
<KNIP>
> Short version: do you know of a way to make your cat pee in the box with
> no litter in it, so that his urin can be collected for later
> ph-analysis? Ours won't do it, and would rather pee somewhere else,
> which he would never do under other circumstances.

Try cutting up some plastic bags into strips and put them in the litter-box.

Marleene.
RTR - 05 Oct 2003 06:31 GMT
I seriously doubt he'll pee without his litter there.
Domestics are very proud and prefer to keep their toilet activities on the hush hush.
And that means 'burying' it to get it out of sight.  
Will he pee in a normal littered box with you right there looking at him? I don't mean staring at him...just right there beside him.
If so, maybe you could catch some of it in a small cup of sorts. Wear a rubber glove if you do.
Mine pee in a pretty straight and steady stream almost straight out their backsides.
If I needed to, I could reach back there and get a good amout in a cup as he peed.
Just a suggestion (not a great one I know).
-R

> hello !
>
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
>
> Cheerio Georg
Georg Naggies - 05 Oct 2003 16:19 GMT
thanks - I'll try that.
actually I have never looked at his toilet activities, as
opposed to the results, too closely. maybe he'll tolerate me
there - he is a laid back kind of guy, maybe he will

> I seriously doubt he'll pee without his litter there.
> Domestics are very proud and prefer to keep their toilet activities on the hush hush.
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
>>
>>Cheerio Georg
 
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